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4th Gen - 2.3i Battery Charging Issue *** Fixed ***
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2024 6:44 pm
by arif_manji
Hi guys,
Got a bit of a stange one. I’m helping this lady who owns a 4th Gen 1993 UK 2.3i.
The battery kept dying, I then thought it could only be the alternator. I replaced it with a known working one (same part number etc and from a UKDM one as I know I’ve had issues previously with import and UK types as they have different charging systems.
After changing the alternator, the battery / charging tester doesn’t even detect the battery being charged. Same as prior to replacing the alternator. The tester I have is a good one and previously it would detects ‘Charging System Low’ usually meaning failing alternator.
I’ve checked the green plug and there is voltage on the black/yellow wire and others on the plug. I’ve also checked the fuses, nothing blown.
I’m a bit stumped. Not sure if anyone has any other ideas? Part of me thinks it’s not an alternator issue.
Cheers
4th Gen - 2.3i Battery Charging Issue
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2024 7:10 pm
by arif_manji
This is the type of charger I have;
The meter sits on the Orange area ‘Charge 30 amps’ rather than in the ‘Charging System’ area.
I forgot to mention that it’s had a new a battery too.
4th Gen - 2.3i Battery Charging Issue
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2024 7:53 pm
by Scott560
It could well be the main battery cable from the alternator to the battery. Check that it hasn't got brittle and corroded. Not seen it on a honda, but have seen it on others.
If you have a multi-meter, check for +14v on the metal post on the alternator (mindful not to lose your multi-meter leads into the belt!).
If you have 14v on the post under the rubber cover, then the wire from alt to batt is knackered.
If you don't have 14v at the alternator post, its most likely the feed to the alternator is suspect since you have replaced with a known good one (I believe there is a part in the fusebox that monitors load? Does the dashboard battery light illuminate at ignition on before starting? In some circuits on this era of car, the light actually completes the circuit that excites the alternator, if the bulb goes, the alternator never gets its +12v to fire up and start generating).
If your drop tester is showing 9v when running, then I would stop using the battery immediately, remove it and charge it completely before retrying. Car batteries will fail very quickly when the voltage is as low as the orange area. The new battery will quickly become scrap.
4th Gen - 2.3i Battery Charging Issue
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:08 pm
by arif_manji
Scott560 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 7:53 pm
It could well be the main battery cable from the alternator to the battery. Check that it hasn't got brittle and corroded. Not seen it on a honda, but have seen it on others.
If you have a multi-meter, check for +14v on the metal post on the alternator (mindful not to lose your multi-meter leads into the belt!).
If you have 14v on the post under the rubber cover, then the wire from alt to batt is knackered.
If you don't have 14v at the alternator post, its most likely the feed to the alternator is suspect since you have replaced with a known good one (I believe there is a part in the fusebox that monitors load? Does the dashboard battery light illuminate at ignition on before starting? In some circuits on this era of car, the light actually completes the circuit that excites the alternator, if the bulb goes, the alternator never gets its +12v to fire up and start generating).
If your drop tester is showing 9v when running, then I would stop using the battery immediately, remove it and charge it completely before retrying. Car batteries will fail very quickly when the voltage is as low as the orange area. The new battery will quickly become scrap.
Thanks Scott. I am back with the car on Friday and will go through of what you have suggested. Also, no battery light illuminates on the dash as it should which is also strange.
I've also printed out the manual on the Charging System' diagnoses. I'll give you an update then.
4th Gen - 2.3i Battery Charging Issue
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2024 6:41 pm
by wurlycorner
What does that tester show on one your 'known good' ludes, for reference?
4th Gen - 2.3i Battery Charging Issue
Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:32 pm
by arif_manji
Hey guys,
Sorry I haven't posted an update on this since but the lady who owns the car has lost the keys and the car is now stuck in a garage. Once I get the locks change etc, I'll be starting work on this car again.
Cheers
4th Gen - 2.3i Battery Charging Issue
Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 5:16 pm
by wurlycorner
Thanks for the update and DOH! at the key loss!
4th Gen - 2.3i Battery Charging Issue
Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 3:35 pm
by arif_manji
Hey guys,
New update and and its now FIXED.
After changing the locks, including ignition, I revisited the charging issue using
@Scott560 advise and the Honda manual, I was still so confused as nothing would make sense.
So I ordered a new reconditioned alternator with the same part number as the old one on the car, this fixed the issue! Even though the one I supplied from a facelift 1994 2.3i which was tested on a donor car a day before. My assumption that all 2.3i H23A UKDM alternators would be the same was TOTALLY WRONG. They're different!
Lesson learnt! And I hope anyone who comes across this issue in the future needs to remember that its not only are the charging systems that are different on the UKDM and JDM models, but pre-facelift and facelift models don't share the same alternators either. How odd?
Thanks for the help and advise on this one guys!
4th Gen - 2.3i Battery Charging Issue *** Fixed ***
Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:34 pm
by wurlycorner
Yep, alternators must match exactly. Differences in the way the field is excited, charge state detected etc.