Lude Generation

Hi guys!

My name is Olivier (Oliver will be easier if you prefer) and I live near Lyon and Grenoble, in the French Alps.
I'll be 24 very soon and I have had Preludes and some not-as-interesting Honda since I'm 18.

At the moment I still have a 4WD Shuttle EE4 to have fun in the snow and a first-gen CRX (AS53) that I have to repair. I also have a first gen automatic Prelude which is very fun to drive and a bone stock 1990 3rd gen silver Prelude with B20A7 engine. These two cars will be gone soon as I lack time to drive them and as my other projects are evolving, I don't want to bother with so many cars.

I still want to keep two others third gen Prelude that I have.

Road car:
1988 4WS 3rd gen, B20A7 engine
The goal is to bring comfort and driving pleasure for a daily driver car (I don't drive daily, most of the time I'm on back roads or mountain roads). I won't strip it down and I'll keep AC (need to refill AC gas though) but I'll make it a bit more juicy than stock.

At the moment:

Engine:
- AEM V1 Cold Air Intake
- 60mm throttle body (55mm stock)
- DC Sports headers
- Stock exhaust at the moment
- NGK iridium spark plugs
- NGK plug harness
- Valve clearances and distributor set like Mr. Honda said Smile
155hp and 196Nm on the dyno (except that I had my Thermal R&D exhaust for the dyno, sold it since it was too loud for me)

Engine broke down on a local racetrack last year, anyway it was burning a lot of oil since a long time.

Chassis:
- Tokico HP shocks
- Eibach springs on Ground Control coilovers
- Upper front and rear Cusco strut bars
- Orijin UCA bushings
- Superpro full bushing kit
- Whiteline front and rear sway bars
- Battery in the boot
- BB1 front calipers
- Goodridge brake lines
- ALB is working

Interior:
- Front seats from a 4th gen Prelude
- Rear seats from a 90 3rd gen Prelude

Exterior:
- USDM corner lights

For 2013 the goal is to put another stock engine in it, some brake pads too (OEM-like pads were, without any surprise, not the right choice), maybe upgrade rear brakes too, and some gauges to monitor the engine. I'll be very happy if I can drive it this summer.

In the garage I'm building another B20A7 with cams and high comp pistons, I don't know when it'll be ready (before winter I hope) but as long as I can drive the car with a stock engine I can be very patient to build the HC B20A7. I'll match it with a 90 gearbox and maybe shorter final drive/ longer fifth gear from a CB7. Maybe a Honda LSD too, not sure about it (I don't want an intrusive "race" LSD on this car but maybe the DC2 LSD is soft enough). I want the car to be as much as possible like Honda would have done a Type S third gen Prelude (and I use Honda parts as far as it's mechanically and financially possible).

Race car:
Actually I will present the project, not the car. I have a rolling car that I brought to the European Prelude Meet a few weeks ago but the shell is more than shot (massive rust, everything's broken, cracked windscreen, levitating bumpers...). I bought a very very clean carbed 2WS 3rd Prelude for very cheap and I'm going to continue the build on this one, I'll simply throw away the rotten shell.

At the moment (as it was on the Ring, keep in mind I was in a total rush to complete it in time, not very rich either given the small time so I had to make huge sacrifices on parts and on time management)
- Stock 1989 4WS B20A7 base
- Massive weight savings (carbon fiber roof)
- Koni adjustable shocks
- Riced out bumpy springs
- Rear strut bar
- Superpro/Superflex poly bushings on LCAs and on sway bars
- Stock calipers (I don't need bigger ones as the car is light)
- EBC stock discs
- Ferodo OEM pads
- Stainless steel brake lines, RBF600, disconnected ALB (wasn't working anyway)
- 195/50/15 GG R888


I could have made a more efficient build with not so much more time and money (CAI, Pace Setter header that sleeps in the garage, battery relocation, ALB removal, maybe PS removal - have to try and decide on this one) but I really did not have that time (I finished the car two days before leaving for the Ring).
Anyway it's still loads of fun to drive, and quite impressive too given the small budget. At the moment the car weights precisely 1000kg (low on fuel).

I have to decide what to do exactly with the new shell. I’d really like to have a professional fitting a 12 point rollcage but have to think twice about the budget. I’ll see.
I’ll do the same kind of weight saving, pushing it a little further. But I’ll keep the car in good condition, the black (actually dark blue) one was ruined anyway but I’ll plan on keeping this one as long as possible.

I’ll continue to improve the chassis, I won’t list everything I might add because I’ll see what I need exactly when I’ll be tracking it. I know I’ll have poly bushes everywhere, better brake pads, bucket seats and harnesses, real suspensions too, but for bigger brakes and sway bars it will depend on how the car brakes and handles.

The engine now. This is where it gets interesting. Exit the dual carb B20A4. No mighty B20A7 either. No torque-less H22 in it, not (yeah, actually I’m just trolling). I plan on building a H23 VTEC.
Parts I already have:
- Full H22A7 head
- H22A7 pistons
- H22A7 oil sump and oil “suck” (forgot the English name but I’m sure you got it)
- H23 rods and crankshaft
- K20 RBC intake manifold
- Engine mounts and axles for the 3rd gen swap

For the record, stock head, H23 bottom end and H22A7 pistons should give a 12.1:1 CR.

I know it involves a lot of custom work (fittings pistons on rods, K20 intake on H22 head, I plan on a balance shaft delete too) but luckily some I have some friends who works with CNC machines and this kind of stuff (I know what I’m talking about but don’t know the English words).

The final goal would be to achieve less than 950kg with the roll cage fitted. It will be hard...
I don't know how much power I'll get. Anything will be enough anyway. 250hp at the crank, maybe ? What do you think ?
Well, this is the least important subject right now.

Anyway I’m here to get more information about everything I don’t know. There are many things on my builds I still have to decide and they are many, many interesting things I need to read on this forum.
I’m very glad Daniel from Bulgaria (eDaniel) told me at the EPM to register here to see other builds and keep in touch with the Prelude maniacs from all around Europe. My French friends and I had a really great time at the event and I was glad to meet all these guys. I remember James and Jason from UK, as long as many other guys I remember the face, the car but can’t remember the name.

Any questions, just ask me. I may ask (or at least, search) for a lot of things engine-related but I know the 3rd gen very well, and 4th and 5th gens quite a bit, and spend some time studying them and improving their chassis. I didn’t say everything (hell, this is already very long) so I may have missed something important.

I’ll add a few photos later (maybe tonight) in the next post.

Some pics now!

The first one, LPG system, very clean, bought in 2008, crashed on the Ring in 2008.



Then, the "champagne" one (in France we call them "champagne" if their paint if YR-85M, almost nobody knows it's called "Marshall Silver") which I bought in 2009. I still have it, it's the "road car".

Day I bought it:



Day before I broke the engine (which I had already replaced, then it broke the head gasket 200km later):



Now the "troll race lude" (bought in 2012 from a friend, I was already driving it on a few occasions since 2008):















And the new shell for the project (the rear arch dent is the only dent on the whole car and I couldn't find the slightest spot of rust anywhere):



Here's my first gen Prelude:



It's the third one from the closest (behind the convertible):



And my really really rusted Shuttle (was given to me for free):







Then the CRX I have to repair (long story short, engine was shot when I bought it and bad circumstances so no time to repair):



I also have had a 623 for three years, even if it's a Roewe (woops, I mean a Rover) it was really pleasant to drive and very comfortable. The torque was pretty surprising from a 4-banger NA car. Hence the idea of a H23 VTEC as the stock H22 is a bit slow in low revs in my opinion.



Before the 623 was a very fun Concerto with D16A9 engine and short FD gearbox from factory.

Welcome to LG!! IT sounds like you have some interesting plans

great plans but would be cheaper to buy a h23 vtec blue top engine also there are already adapters out there to fit the k20 inlet to the h22.

bonjour Olivier. Welcome to LG. Nice write up. As for being a long introduction, wait till you read some of the epic posts that can be posted here. Also, if you are using a standard 2.3 engine, i didn't think it has the oil way to supply the vtec solenoid.

Salut Olivier

Very impressive introduction, and you speak/write very good English (Better than some of the other guys on here ).

Hopefully we'll be able to help you with anything you need to know, but it also sounds like you'll be able to help many of us as well

I look forward to seeing the pictures, especially of the carbon fibre roof

Also, did you have adapters made up to fit the 4th gen calipers to the 3rd gen?

Thanks guys!

@mercutio we don't have any JDM imports in France. If we want some we have to come and get them in UK. I already have most of the internal parts too. The H22A7 parts (head, pistons, oil sump) are, as far as I know, better than what I can find on a bluetop H23. Plus, if I can chose, I stay with closed deck (I'm more confident with it for some reason, am I wrong?). But with an H23A bluetop there would be no hassle fitting A7 pistons, I think.

@honda-hardy H22A2 and H23A2/3 are the same blocks. No oil squirters on H23 though but that can be added. Except those squirters, AFAIK the oil circuit is strictly the same.

Anyway it seems a friend of mine will sell me his bare H22A block (from a JDM 4G).

@NafemanNathan thanks for my English! I'd like to speak English as well as I can write it.

I'll add pics but the carbon fiber roof (well, just a moonroof replacement plate) was custom made by a professional, there are small visual defects on the fiber as it was a prototype so I bought it for cheap.

For BB1/BB2 calipers on the BA4 you need to use BB1/BB2 brackets. With MG ZR 160 / ZS 2.5 V6 front discs (because it's 4x100 too) I had to ask a friend to make some little spacers. I can add photos if you want. I don't remember the spacers width, maybe 5 or 6 mm. I wasn't happy with the stock bolts too (adding 6mm with spacers removes 6mm of useful thread length) so I bought longer bolts.
I have all the information somewhere, I'll post the specs here.

Welcome aboard

Thanks!

@mercutio I forgot to answer but I know these adapter plates for K intakes : http://quartersportsdrag.com/KIM.html
Are there any others on the market?

@NafemanNathan I used 6mm spacers but some other guys used 7.5mm spacers (really can't understand why: same car, same calipers, same brackets). I suggest buying the discs first then present the calipers and measure how much you need as it is a tight fit.
Longer bolts are M12x125, can't find the lenght, oh irony... just try to find them 6 or 7 mm longer than the stock ones.
I have a local hardware stock where I bought them for like 1€ each.

Also, you have to remove or fold a little the protection plate behind the discs, really not a big deal.

You can also use upgrades too, I know some 3G Preludes with Legend and NSX twin pot calipers.

Blista wrote:@NafemanNathan thanks for my English! I'd like to speak English as well as I can write it.

I'll add pics but the carbon fiber roof (well, just a moonroof replacement plate) was custom made by a professional, there are small visual defects on the fiber as it was a prototype so I bought it for cheap.

For BB1/BB2 calipers on the BA4 you need to use BB1/BB2 brackets. With MG ZR 160 / ZS 2.5 V6 front discs (because it's 4x100 too) I had to ask a friend to make some little spacers. I can add photos if you want. I don't remember the spacers width, maybe 5 or 6 mm. I wasn't happy with the stock bolts too (adding 6mm with spacers removes 6mm of useful thread length) so I bought longer bolts.
I have all the information somewhere, I'll post the specs here.

Ahh ok, I thought you meant the whole roof. Wishful think (or lack of thinking) I guess

That'd be good to see mate. I've got a couple spare sets of calipers. I hadn't really considered fitting them just yet, but I will in time. The hardest thing to find out generally is what disks will work, so thanks for that