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2.2 VTi Auto - Crank, no start, no spark

Engine/Gearbox questions and discussion
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tobyslude
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2.2 VTi Auto - Crank, no start, no spark

Post by tobyslude » Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:00 pm

Hi guys hope you're well, long time no see for me!

Slowly been getting my driveway rotter Lude up and going for an MOT, after replacing a rear caliper a few days ago I was bleeding it, went to start it and nothing. Just cranks. Bare in mind I'd started it maybe three or four times previously that morning and it'd warmed up. Not getting spark, and no continuity at the spring inside the distributor. I've taken the plug off the dizzy, I'm getting continuety at the black/yellow wire (power) with ignition on.

Not getting anything from the yellow and green wire when cranking.

I'm pretty stuck and I don't understand the wiring diagram too much. I've been advised to now check the crank sensor.

If anyone knows or has any ideas, please let me know !

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2.2 VTi Auto - Crank, no start, no spark

Post by Vtecmec » Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:27 pm

The crank sensor is internal to the dizzy, it cannot be swapped. If your getting the right power to the dizzy, but no spark then look at igniter, coil or a replacement dizzy.

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2.2 VTi Auto - Crank, no start, no spark

Post by Drax » Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:02 pm

i agree
2.2 JDM DOHC SI-VTEC LSD TCS 4WS ABS BB1 MANUAL 1992
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FOR PAUL

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2.2 VTi Auto - Crank, no start, no spark

Post by tobyslude » Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:50 am

Thanks for the help guys, anyone here have a bb8 2.2 dizzy for sale?
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2.2 VTi Auto - Crank, no start, no spark

Post by Scott560 » Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:09 pm

Worth ruling out the basics first.

1) does the fuel pump prime - plenty of fresh fuel in there? You should be able to hear it on ignition on and also in the engine bay.
2) you cant really test the crank sensor with a continuity tester or multimeter whilst cranking.
3) When cranking, can you hear compression, eg , does the engine labour to turn over with the distinctive 'whomp' sound, or does it just whir lifelessly like a kitchen mixer?
4) Now you have the dizzy cap off - check that it rotates when you crank , just to confirm your cambelt didn't snap.

if you remove the rotor arm (fat crosshead screw), and remove the spark shield, you can check:

1) connections to the coil. Disconnect the multiplug, and check you have continuity to the 2 small screw terminals on the coil block. Ive seen the screw terminals brake.
For the love of god don't lose that spring!

2) You can check for continuity in the various position sensors when its disconnected from the ECU. I'm not sure the resistance, but there should be some. If its open circuit then one of the position sensors is gone. Only a broken crank sensor should prevent starting.

If all that checks OK, then most likely the ignitor module.

I have seen ropey contacts in a distributor cause a car not to start when warm (would start fine when cold always, idle strong etc, but as the car warmed up, condensation in the dizzy cap killed the spark). The central electrode in the dizzy cap was scarcely present...

I probably have a spare coil, dizzy housing, unsure about the crank sensor. Not sure about igniter - is it in the dizzy?
'00 UKDM 2.2VTI H22a8
'21 'e' Advance

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2.2 VTi Auto - Crank, no start, no spark

Post by tobyslude » Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:40 pm

Scott560 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:09 pm
Worth ruling out the basics first.

1) does the fuel pump prime - plenty of fresh fuel in there? You should be able to hear it on ignition on and also in the engine bay.
2) you cant really test the crank sensor with a continuity tester or multimeter whilst cranking.
3) When cranking, can you hear compression, eg , does the engine labour to turn over with the distinctive 'whomp' sound, or does it just whir lifelessly like a kitchen mixer?
4) Now you have the dizzy cap off - check that it rotates when you crank , just to confirm your cambelt didn't snap.

if you remove the rotor arm (fat crosshead screw), and remove the spark shield, you can check:

1) connections to the coil. Disconnect the multiplug, and check you have continuity to the 2 small screw terminals on the coil block. Ive seen the screw terminals brake.
For the love of god don't lose that spring!

2) You can check for continuity in the various position sensors when its disconnected from the ECU. I'm not sure the resistance, but there should be some. If its open circuit then one of the position sensors is gone. Only a broken crank sensor should prevent starting.

If all that checks OK, then most likely the ignitor module.

I have seen ropey contacts in a distributor cause a car not to start when warm (would start fine when cold always, idle strong etc, but as the car warmed up, condensation in the dizzy cap killed the spark). The central electrode in the dizzy cap was scarcely present...

I probably have a spare coil, dizzy housing, unsure about the crank sensor. Not sure about igniter - is it in the dizzy?
Hi, thanks for your response!

I can hear the fuel pump prime, the last time I went up to my garage I put 5l of Shell VPower in the tank. Rotor arm turns, I've attached a video of trying to start the car.

So I've got no spark on the coil, I haven't taken the arm and cover off yet to test the small P and N screw terminals. I take it I can test these with a test light and cranking the car?

To make it more awkward, I'm usually by myself at my garage and the only continuity/electrical tester I have is a cheap test light!

Also, to point out when I first took the dizzy cap off, it did have a small amount of oil at the bottom of the cover.

People also pointed out that the crank sensor is in the dizzy, however a google search shows a dual crank position sensor behind the crank pulley?

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2.2 VTi Auto - Crank, no start, no spark

Post by Scott560 » Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:21 pm

Well that's the normal sound - sounds like compression. With the rotor arm spinning, confirms the cambelt didn't snap...

It's hard to test components with just a continuity tester, ideally a multimeter would . Worth removing the rotor arm and shield - just to check those coil connections. A little oil is fine - ideally it'd be bone dry but there is a little breather built into the rotor cap so i'm guessing some can blow in via the dizzy seal.

Seems odd for one of the ignition components to just die, normally you would get some kind of issue before hand. I would double check any work you have done recently in case you have inadvertently disconnected/broken something. How are you checking for spark? If there is only one of you at the car its quite hard to crank and ground a spark plug at the same time?
'00 UKDM 2.2VTI H22a8
'21 'e' Advance

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2.2 VTi Auto - Crank, no start, no spark

Post by tobyslude » Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:49 pm

Scott560 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:21 pm
Well that's the normal sound - sounds like compression. With the rotor arm spinning, confirms the cambelt didn't snap...

It's hard to test components with just a continuity tester, ideally a multimeter would . Worth removing the rotor arm and shield - just to check those coil connections. A little oil is fine - ideally it'd be bone dry but there is a little breather built into the rotor cap so i'm guessing some can blow in via the dizzy seal.

Seems odd for one of the ignition components to just die, normally you would get some kind of issue before hand. I would double check any work you have done recently in case you have inadvertently disconnected/broken something. How are you checking for spark? If there is only one of you at the car its quite hard to crank and ground a spark plug at the same time?
Indeed, next on the list is to check the coil connections. I don't get it either, I did most the mechanical work when I first got the car, replaced the alternator, radiator, serviced the car etc. I've ran the car and driven it multiple times after doing this. The morning it stopped running, I had used the Lude to jumpstart my IS200, then moved the Lude, engine off, engine on etc (I had turned off and started the car a couple times after using it to jump the IS) And it was warm. Then after bleeding the caliper it just cranks. Mind you I haven't checked any fuses etc yet. But it just baffles me how it doesn't want to start.

Using the spark plug with the longest HT lead I was able to crank and touch the spark plug on a ground at the same time. One spark plug was oily, the rest were dry but a little black. I thought it might be spark plugs but if I don't have spark at the coil, the problem must be before that.
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