Lude Generation

Here's the story of my Prelude's long-running oil leak that was finally fixed shortly before Christmas:

04/2017
Rear balancer shaft drive gear housing bolt hole
Timing belt & balancer timing belt (14400-P13-004 & 13405-PT0-004) £59.71
Labour £351.00
The leak was identified to be coming from one of the securing bolts of the rear balance shaft drive gear housing which was replaced during April 2015. It was discovered that the thread in the engine block had been stripped and the bolt was being held in by some sort of black sealant. Not good. A new thread was inserted via a Time-Sert repair on the engine block allowing the bolt to be secured correctly. The timing belt and balancer timing belts were also replaced due to oil contamination. Also, as requested, the valve clearances were checked & adjusted as well and the ignition timing checked and confirmed to be correct. This would be the beginning of a very lengthy and expensive saga...

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06/2017
2x cam shaft oil seals (91213-PR3-004) £16.48
The area around the previous repair was dry, however apparently there was some oil around the rear cam shaft oil seal. Subsequently, both cam shaft oil seals were replaced free of charge. I had previously purchased 2x cam shaft oil seals (along with a balancer shaft oil seal and crank shaft oil seal) during March 2014 but the seals were subsequently not required then.

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07/2017
Rear balancer shaft drive gear housing (13500-PAA-A00)
It was suspected the leak was coming from the rear balancer shaft drive gear housing, so it was removed, cleaned up and refitted at no charge.

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10/2017
Rear balancer shaft drive gear housing (13500-PAA-A00) £304.94
It was suspected the leak was coming from the rear balancer shaft drive gear housing, so it was replaced with no charge for the labour. There had been a long wait of a few months for the part to arrive from Honda.

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11/2017
Diagnostic visit
After further investigation, their consensus was that the oil leak was coming from the rear corner of the head gasket. As this would be expensive to repair (quoted approximately 6 - 7 hours labour), I chose to get this resolved in the future. Additionally, a leak from a power steering fluid pipe (from cooler to steering rack) was identified and repaired by bypassing the metal pipe with a rubber hose. This was done at no charge. Investigations of the slow oil leak were then put on hold as my money was being prioritised elsewhere.

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06/2019
Diagnostic visit
Up until now, I had used an independent Honda specialist located Hampshire and didn't have much success. Moving forward, I took my car elsewhere to an independent Honda specialist located in East Sussex. After an initial look, they suspected it was the cylinder head cover gasket at fault.

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07/2019
Cylinder head cover gasket (12341-P13-000) £27.08
Labour £54.00
This was replaced but unfortunately, the oil leak persisted.

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01/2020
Diagnostic visit
Not able to identify the source during this visit and requested it to be brought back in another time for another look. There was no charge for this visit.

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02/2020
Diagnostic visit
Still wasn't sure of the source but suspected a seal at fault as booked it in for further work. There was no charge for this visit.

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03/2020
Balancer shaft seal (91233-PT0-003) £11.80
Labour £214.20
Replaced the balancer shaft seal, believing that to be the source of the oil leak. I had supplied this seal after having it supplied to me back in March 2014 for another job (timing belt service) but was not required then. In preparation for this job, a new timing belt and balancer belt were supplied but not fitted as not required so they were handed to me for future use. They cost £113.40. Also, the bottom sliding pin of rear near-side brake caliper carrier had seized up, noticeably effecting the handbrake. This was freed off and a new set of Blue Print rear brake pads were fitted.

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06/2020
Diagnostic visit
This visit was delayed due to the global COVID-19 pandemic. They cleaned up the oil leak and ran the engine for over an hour with the side covers off. Unfortunately, the leak was not seen. Agreed to bring it back in for further investigations. A replacement fuel filter was routinely replaced as requested that I supplied.

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06/2020
Cylinder head cover gasket (12341-P13-000) £28.10
Labour £120.00
Cleaned up the ongoing near-side oil leak and gave the car back to me with both engine side covers removed to aid the diagnosis of the source of the ongoing oil leak. Also, as agreed two weeks prior, they replaced the leaking distributor O-ring, both tie rod end boots which had perished and the cylinder head cover gasket for good measure due to it being removed multiple times.

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07/2020
Unscheduled visit. I had inspected the leaking area myself at home, now having visual access to the area with the covers removed. Did some research and discussed the leak with them. Leak seems to be top central oil pump housing which needs to be resealed. All seals / gaskets will be ordered. Booked in for September.

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09/2020
Rear balancer shaft drive gear housing gasket (15114-PT0-003) £7.30
Labour £222.00
Once the car was in the workshop for the oil pump hosing to be resealed, it was believed that the oil pump housing was probably OK and that the rear balancer shaft drive gear housing was the likely source of the leak so we agreed that should be tackled instead. The part was removed, a new gasket fitted then refitted. The unused parts from the aborted job were paid for and supplied to me unused. Following this visit, I established that this did partly resolve the near-side oil leak. It was now reduced and more focal / less diffuse, indicating that the rear balancer shaft drive gear housing gasket must indeed have been leaking while there was an additional leak elsewhere.

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09/2020
Unscheduled ad-hoc visit to discuss.
Possibly oil sump needs resealing. Booked in for October.

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10/2020
Diagnostic visit.
Quick inspection while on lift. Agreed looks like oil sump.

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11/2020
Oil pain sealant (Hondabond) £37.80
Semi-circular oil pan gasket (11251-P5K-000) £5.63
Labour £144.00
Removed, resealed & refitted the oil pan using Hondabond sealant along with the replacement of the small semi-circular oil pan gasket that's located on one side. A week or so later, I noted that the leak persisted so we agreed that the crankshaft oil seal had to be the most likely culprit.

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12/2020
Front main crankshaft oil seal (91212-PAA-A01) £12.68
Labour £120.00
As agreed, replaced the front main crankshaft oil seal. After a couple of weeks I was relived the confidently say that at long last, the near-side engine oil leak had finally been resolved! Epic Christmas present!

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So, to recap, it took over 3.5 years, although it had been put on hold for a year and a half of that, so 2 years is more accurate.

20 visits in total, 2 of those were wasted (1 when I turned up and was told the main mechanic had an eye infection so couldn't work on my car and the other was though a miscommunication in dates). Some of the visits were purely diagnostic, i.e. nothing was actually carried out on the car.

£511.52 spent on parts when the actual parts which definitely were proved to be leaking only cost £19.98 (rear balancer shaft drive gear housing gasket £7.30 + front main crankshaft oil seal £12.68).

£1,225.20 spent on labour charges, although during some of the visits, other jobs were tackled at the same time, including the rear near-side brake and distributor O-ring.

Total spend - £1,736.72.

A lot of people would have just left the oil leak alone, however, I am a perfectionist with OCD so couldn't just leave it. Up until October 2019 I was living in a rented flat and an oil patch had developed on the ground where I parked my car. Following moving into a new home during October 2019, I wanted to avoid the that reoccurring so was eager to get it fixed. Fortunately, the oil patch on my new driveway is hardly noticeable. It was never a major leak anyway, it was a very slow seepage and would only occur at higher speeds or when driving in a freaking insane fashion (at higher oil pressures).

Its certainly a labour of love to keep these old cars in fine working order, and you either have to put in all the effort yourself, or pay for it to be done. Either way it's a lot of effort and sometimes you end up questioning if it is all worth it or not.

Sometimes even buying parts isn't straight forward or easy or quick.

My front crank seal is also leaking lol.

having OCD about it really wont help but it's not a bad thing to have a nice clean none oil leak engine bay quite a few of those leaks are quite simple to DIY, would have saved some money.

i dont think ive ever not had an oil leak of some kind in the 10+ years ive had mine but it's never bothered me that much as long as it doesnt take much oil to top up.

Scott560 wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:30 pm

My front crank seal is also leaking lol.

front...? surely its the nearside or offside

Good work on sticking with it and getting it fixed and you will probably own the only H22 lude that doesnt have an oil leak

There was a good guide on oil leaks and here is a cut and paste bit from it:

Balance Shaft Seal: Like the cam seals, you will need to remove your timing belt and front engine cover to do these. These typically don't leak as much, but it is a good idea to get fresh seals while you are this far in. To remove these guys, you need to break the bolt loose on the end of the balance shaft (good idea to leave the belt on the shaft wheel before doing this) and remove the retainer. Once they are out of the way, it's the same as doing the cam shaft seals.
HOW YOU CAN TELL: Oil will be leaking from the seal, typically black and dirty underneath seal.
COST: About $5.
Part #91233-PT0-003


Front/Rear Main Seals: The biggest bastards of them all, the front and rear main seals. The front main seal is located behind the crank pulley, while the rear main seal is buried behind the flywheel on the back of the motor. If you're going this far, you might as well plan on investing in a new clutch too!
HOW YOU CAN TELL: Oil will be leaking between the transmission case and the engine block, or out of the bottom of the timing cover and onto the oil pan
COST: $15 for the rear, $15 for the front.
Part #91214-PAA-A01 (rear)
......#91214-PLE-003 (front)

Drax wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:30 am

having OCD about it really wont help but it's not a bad thing to have a nice clean none oil leak engine bay quite a few of those leaks are quite simple to DIY, would have saved some money.

i dont think ive ever not had an oil leak of some kind in the 10+ years ive had mine but it's never bothered me that much as long as it doesnt take much oil to top up.

Scott560 wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:30 pm

My front crank seal is also leaking lol.

front...? surely its the nearside or offside

Since old cars were RWD and the engine was longitudinal, the front of the car side of the engine ended up getting called the front of the engine, even when it was transverse in front wheel drive cars. Basically the rear is the gearbox end, and front is the cambelt/pulley end. The rear was done when the gearbox had work done, but I know the front is leaking as it drips off the cam cover at the bottom.

I'm not sure if it drinks more oil than it leaks - its hard to tell (perhaps Honda were getting expectations right for 20year+ ownership when they said 1l /1000 miles heh).

Scott560 wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:21 pm

Since old cars were RWD and the engine was longitudinal, the front of the car side of the engine ended up getting called the front of the engine, even when it was transverse in front wheel drive cars. Basically the rear is the gearbox end, and front is the cambelt/pulley end.

ah ha!! never knew that cheers.

This sounds very similar to the oil leak(s) I had on my Type S. Thankfully, mine was sorted as soon as Performance Autoworks got their hands on it, a bit like in this case, a couple of other "specialists" had seen it and incorrectly diagnosed the leaks.

Mine was coming from the from crank seal and the cambelt area, so 2 separate leaks.

Good to see somebody got to the bottom of what they had going on! So far mines taken a front main seal and a balance seal, now seems to be leaking from around t' back corner somewhere higher up.

I know that this is a year on from the last entry to this thread, but I am new to the forums after seeking help with my own Gen5.
After one singular frosty morning in Dec 21, my Prelude developed a more aggressive leak. After taking it to several mechanics who wouldn't help (and charged for the privilege) I found a more honest guy who told me a bit straighter.
He said similar to this thread, that it could be driveshaft issues, and that seems to be the only issue I recognise here that could match my issue. I find a small puddle of oil often on the driver side area of the engine. The car still drives wonderfully, but I don't want to get caught out by leaving this too long. (And I don't want to oil stain everywhere I park lol.)

Only issue is that my guy said it would be super expensive to get to the issue. It's been classified as a gearbox leak (manual transmission) and he says it's a huge mission to get into and poke around to find the cause. I just want to ask if there's any quick tricks to identifying where it may be coming from that will confirm whether or not I have to take the gearbox out to fix? The main diary of this thread has shown that the individual jobs aren't that expensive, and long story short I don't have £1000s to drop into this. My whole budget would be around £1000 max, and that's before fixing its bodywork.

Any tips on identifying if this driverside leak might be easier to fix than a whole gearbox removal? I hear these crank seals seem to be the biggest offenders?

Many thanks in advance for any help!

(Only just made an account here so haven't got all my stats and pics set up, but it's a 99' 2.0 Manual Gen5, 167,000mi more or less)

Is it gearbox or engine oil?