E10 fuel is this the end of the classic car

Andyjess666 · Post by **Andyjess666** » Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:30 pm

So as you no E10 fuel can't be put in cars made before 2000 so preludes are in trouble like all classic cars E5 is ok but won't be at the pumps after a few years same as super unleaded you can always have your engine sorted so it takes E10 but how much that will cost ?
So is this the end of the classic car an the rise of the battery car ?
Any thoughts as to get round this classic car clubs are lobbying the government so we see

Post by **ek9sid** » Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:42 pm

According to the government website, all hondas running fuel injection (PGM-FI) is compatible with E10.

https://check-vehicle-compatibility-e10 ... urer/Honda

YouTube · Post by **Sailor** » Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:23 pm

I think we need to be careful about the materials used in fuel systems. Also, the hygroscopic nature of ethanol means that water can build up in your fuel if the car is unused for a fair length of time.

Here's an overview: https://classicsworld.co.uk/guides/e10- ... ers-guide/

Andyjess666 · Post by **Andyjess666** » Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:39 pm

I read that the ethanol will eat into certain components of your engine over time an parts will have to be changed to accommodate it

Andyjess666 · Post by **Andyjess666** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:01 am

So if you read what sailor has put up an what ek9sid has put up what one do you believe ? Only the truth I think will come out if we all start having the same problems with our engine's that's if any preludes are still running lol

Scott560 · Post by **Scott560** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:10 am

I believe it's only the rubber/plastic components that are affected. Even then, it's only older rubbers made out of poorer materials that do not resist the ethanol.

Most manufacturers were aware of this many many years ago, and I believe all of our hondas are fine. However, that's not to say that aftermarket or replacement parts are up to OE specification.

I think its going to be one of those things where you have to suck it and see. Older cars it will be harder judge, and parts will most likely need to be replaced.

My father in law is a rubber expert, and says they were talking about high ethanol content petrol back in the 70s and 80s and most 'decent' manufacturers should be fine.

Premium petrol will remain as e5 as I understand it.

Andyjess666 · Post by **Andyjess666** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:07 am

If you read sailors link @Scott560 it give you more information E5 is only around for a couple of years then it's gone mate

Post by **RattyMcClelland** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:42 pm

E5 will remain in super unleaded.
I can specifically only use 99ron fuel in both my cars and I'm not worries. It's here to stay. You can still buy 4 star fuel over the internet if you know where to look.

Andyjess666 · Post by **Andyjess666** » Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:21 am

Petrol Retailers Association has confirmed that “E5 will still be available in five years time, but only as the protection grade in 'super'. It will be reviewed in five years time.” Super unleaded comes at a price, however.1 Sept 2021

We see after five years then

89 UKDM BA4 4WS (resto job!) · Post by **wurlycorner** » Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:52 pm

The government site got their info direct from the manufacturers (although they've done a thoroughly half-arsed job, allowing utterly inconsistent responses from some manufacturers and just not bothered at all to challenge 'sorry we don't know' BS replies, but that aside...)

Honda gave a very clear response and here it is straight from the horses mouth;
https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/owners/e10-fuel.html

They've given 2 answers because they know everything they've sold since 1996 has PGM-FI, whereas before then, some cars were PGM-FI and some were still carb.
So E10 is fine in 4th and 5th gens and in fuel injected 3g and 2g (2g and 3g are pre-1996, but the fuel injected versions are still PGM-FI).
1g and carb 2g / 3g are jobby out of luck and have to run on super, now.

As for the outlook going forward... Much less worried about whether still able to get E5, than general viability of buying petrol.
Personally, I think petrol use will start to become a problem, long before the 2030 ban of all ICE powered cars - on a cost basis.

If you think about it - no mainstream car manufacturer is launching pure ICE models now - they're all hybrid, as a minimum (and I can't see any mainstream car manufacturer starting development on any new model that isn't pure EV, now?)

Hybrids use less fuel - so we're already in the position where petrol use will start to rapidly decline, from today forward.

Petrol is expensive to produce and distribute, with massive fixed overhead costs (production/storage plant and distribution network) - the only reason it's as 'cheap' as it currently is ('cheap' in relative terms) is because of the high volume. Once that volume goes down, the fixed costs have to spread over much lower use - price per L will have to go up massively, to compensate.
So yes, petrol will still be available - but will it still be affordable, in the not too distant future?

Then there's the land value in the petrol stations - think about where most of the them are (in town/village centres). Huge land value. Once petrol volumes start dropping off, even the footfall to the retail store (where they generate a lot of their revenue) does as well.
At that point, why sit on a valuable asset that you can't generate a good income from, while housing demand is sky-rocketing?