Lude Generation

chrismc wrote:From my experience the ATR map is more aggressive with an immediate noticeable jump by about 20HP as it hits VTEC- not subtle or ideal at all IMO.

Sailor wrote:

chrismc wrote:From my experience the ATR map is more aggressive with an immediate noticeable jump by about 20HP as it hits VTEC- not subtle or ideal at all IMO.

I like it like this. Even though it's harder to keep it on cam because the cut-in is at higher revs, the surge is fun can occasionally be quite handy.

Merlin wrote:Apart from the intake manifold and the head itself (P13 Vs PDE) there isnt much difference. Same 11:1 CR, 62mm TB, and cams. There is rumour that tuning a stock H22a8 will give around 220 once tuned. BennyBoy's tuned H22a8 with H22a7 intake manifold made 244bhp & 173lbft.

http://www.ludegeneration.co.uk/profile ... -t505.html

Buzzonion Vtec wrote:
H22a8 = P13 head same as JDM H22a, a2 and a5
H22a7 = PDE head
H22a (S-spec) = P5P head

H22a7 and H22a8 share the same bottom end - 55mm mains cranks, PDE rods with floating piston pins and PDE pistons

Buzzonion Vtec wrote:

Merlin wrote: Buzzonion - Do you have any comment on the claim that the only difference between the P13 & PDE is that the PDE has a port and polish? I have read a few sites that suggest this.

There are actually a number of differences between the P13 and PDE cylinder heads but most of them are not performance related and some of them not really worth going into.

Likewise not all P13 cylinder heads are the same !!

First things first.

PDE does not have what I would call a "port and polish". The bulk of the intake and exhaust ports are the same as any other H22 head, ie left as it was cast. It's only really a little bit of finishing work at the valve throat that sets them apart (when comparing bare head to bare head).

Other differences - PDE and 98 on casted P13s (on a H22a8 block) have spring LMAs (lost motion assemblies) rather than the hydraulic plunger type of all earlier heads. The machined housings for the LMAs in these later heads are just about 1.5mm shallower than the early ones. You can still use the later "spring LMAs" in earlier heads but you need to add a flat washer to the underside of them so they work effectively.

PDE heads are unique casting to the intake side which was specifically designed to work with the ATR intake manifold design. It's designed for the unique IACV and EGR system found on the ATR. This doesn't mean that a "normal" dual stage P13 type inlet manifold can't be used on this head, it can and works very well. The ATR inlet manifold will of course also work on any of the H22 variations but requires modifications to EGR, IACV and fuel system.

Here's a couple of pics showing the differences in casting that I've just talked about

PDE Cylinder head (ATR)


P13 Cylinder head (actually a 98 spec P13 from a H22a8)



Is a PDE head worth swapping onto a H22a, a2,a5,a8 - I'd say yes if it came complete with cams and that's all you wanted to do.
But if you were going to port it and add higher spec cams (along with valve springs and retainers) then you may as well just use your existing P13 head (of whatever year).



God... I'm such a geek