Lude Generation

Sorry guys - this has kind of/almost been covered before so I'll keep it brief. Any help appreciated.

From reading around it seems when I change cambelt I should also sort:
1) Tensioner (Sticking with auto)
2) Water pump
3) Cam Seals
4) Crank Seal
5) Balance shaft oil seal
6) Balance shaft oil seal retainer kit
7) Crank Pulley

My problem is that I'm being quoted £342 for both belts and tensioner inc.labour from Honda garage.

I fear that the rest is going to push the cost up another couple of hundred(?) with labour which I don't really have at present. (Maybe next time for everything).

What should I concentrate on? Is this all really required? (Engine has FSH and 44k but first cambelt since new). If the water pump fails will the engine go bang for example or is it just usually inaccessible?

If the sages on here can offer an opinion I would appreciate it much.

Cheers

I just did this a couple weeks ago. I replaced the following

Valve cover gasket
camshaft seals
balance shaft seal
Crank seal
Water pump
4 belts
I went with a KS tuned manual tensioner since it was about the same cost and more reliable.

I only replaced them cause of the oil leak issues that i ive been having. You can get away without replacing the crank pulley unless yours is really bad. I cash is the problem, and your seals are still good, I think you can get away with just replacing the cambelt, balance shaft belt, water pump, and tensioner.

If you can't spend too much, then Neo last suggestion is really good.

But If you would like to change everything you need on that side of engine and forget for several years - you also need to change belt bearings. And DON'T stick with auto tensioner. Also, I wouldn't put KS manual tensioner. Both for the same reason - very expensive and you get only the tensioner. I took this kit (link below) and for lower price I got all new OEM parts including both belt bearings. Just this - 90140-P14-A00 - WASHER, PLAIN (11MM) - was missing, but I bought it in local Honda dealer store for couple pounds. So if you don't want to change bearing but want to save money - take this kit There's many online "how-to", how to put this H23 tensioner kit, but if you need any help, you can write me a PM. I made photos when I did this and I will try to help. It doesn't matter, but mine is H22A8.

And what crank pulley are you going to put? My suggestion - don't put that heavy and unreliable two piece rubber joined thing Get aluminum lightweight one, I guess it will also be cheaper, if you are going to buy new OEM crank pulley. And more reliable to my mind.

http://www.importrp.com/product.php?productid=41997

Standard auto tensioner is absolutely fine for a non heavily tuned engine.
How many preludes out there on 100k+, 20 year old engines running auto tensioners? Loads! If he's renewing the tensioner, there's no risk. Don't worry about that. (Otherwise you'll have more expense getting it all stripped down again to check the tension on the manual tensioner a little way down the line...)

Everyone always says about changing the water pump. Ok, it makes sense if you have the cash, 'cause you have to strip all the same down anyway but again, how many of these actually fail?

There have been a few crank pulleys go, but again, in the scheme of how many ludes in the world to how many failed... Is it that likely really? And some of the new stock pulley's have been dodgy if I remember correctly?

When I had the cambelt done on my UKDM at Honda in 2011, I didn't have the water pump changed and I don't lose any sleep over it. I just did belts, tensioner and that was it.
I do wish I'd had seals changed, but they weren't (and aren't) leaking so that was only a piece of mind thing.

In the end it comes down to just that - what matters to you for piece of mind.

Cheers

nb: I'm currently going through the same thought process for the JDM (which I've owned for year and a half and have absolutely no idea when the belt was last done!) so I'm also weighing up how much to replace on it (when I get another job...)

Well, maybe I was a little bit off topic. If you want to save as much as you can - then yes. But if you're going to or forced to buy new tensioner - only reasonable decision is H23 tensioner swap. New pulley - I would buy only aluminum. That was my point.

wurlycorner wrote: There have been a few crank pulleys go, but again, in the scheme of how many ludes in the world to how many failed... Is it that likely really? And some of the new stock pulley's have been dodgy if I remember correctly?

Majority of my known H22 and F20 Preludes have changed it after failure. There's several still ok with the original one, mostly F20. Actually I haven't heard of a H23 failed pulley, maybe because the crankshaft fails first

Also doesnt the auto tensioner need a special tool to fit it?

please make sure you do the waterpump. the answer to wurley is all of them fail

my kids 2ltr belt was changed a week before he bought it and it failrd a week later. my 2.3i auto was done and i went cheap and fitted second hand known good one and it lasted a month

everytime i have ever heard of a waterpump going all have said but my belts were only done recently

Get the waterpump done, the cambelt and any seals that ARE leaking, if none are leaking why fix them?

Dont bother on the crank pully, just dont put balance shaft belt back on you dont need them anyway

H23 manual tensioner with a timing belt is £134
water pump is around £88-125
FULL gasket kit is £120

Wow. Some great responses here. Thanks chaps.

by Neo »Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:21 am
I just did this a couple weeks ago.....
.....I went with a KS tuned manual tensioner since it was about the same cost and more reliable.

...... I cash is the problem, and your seals are still good, I think you can get away with just replacing the cambelt, balance shaft belt, water pump, and tensioner.

Cheers Neo. This sounds a pretty good compromise.

by Froidas »Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:14 am
If you can't spend too much, then Neo last suggestion is really good.
But If you would like to change everything you need on that side of engine and forget for several years - you also need to change belt bearings. And DON'T stick with auto tensioner...... ......but if you need any help, you can write me a PM. I made photos when I did this and I will try to help. It doesn't matter, but mine is H22A8.
And what crank pulley are you going to put? My suggestion......

Thanks a lot for this Froidas. Although I've done some basic spannering I'm getting Honda to do this (even given the money issue!) because the overall job is a monster (I've seen detailed write-ups) at least for me at the moment, and an auto-disaster right now would be very bad news.

Regarding your tensioner point (and granted you obviously know a hell of a lot more about this than I do!) after a lot of thought I decided to go auto because PAW suggested they were fine if replaced with the belt on a standard engine, and also because it's one less thing for me to worry about adjusting. I reckon that link will be pretty useful to anyone who wants one though.

Still thinking about the crank pulley.... Not sure if I won't risk this one. Will probably cost it and then decide. Appreciate the post(s)

by wurlycorner »Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:18 am
Standard auto tensioner is absolutely fine for a non heavily tuned engine.
How many preludes out there on 100k+, 20 year old engines running auto tensioners? Loads! If he's renewing the tensioner, there's no risk..... Don't worry about that. (Otherwise you'll have more expense getting it all stripped down again to check the tension on the manual tensioner a little way down the line...)

Aha! Yes, you and that nice PAW man.

Everyone always says about changing the water pump..... .....but again, how many of these actually fail?
There have been a few crank pulleys go, but again......, ......I do wish I'd had seals changed, but they weren't (and aren't) leaking so that was only a piece of mind thing.

Thanks, Iain/Wurly. Confirming a few things I've heard suggested before and I think you see exactly where I'm coming from. The one bloke who recognises Preludes at Pheonix Honda told me not to bother with the water pump as "It's a Honda. They never break" - obviously an exaggeration but....

Hope you're in a position to get the JDM sorted soon.
Cheers.

by Merlin »Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:43 am

Also doesnt the auto tensioner need a special tool to fit it?

That's OK. I have been called both in the past
As I say despite the cost Honda are doing it so I care not.
Cheers

by Dbo »Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:13 pm
please make sure you do the waterpump. the answer to wurley is all of them fail.....
.......everytime i have ever heard of a waterpump going all have said but my belts were only done recently

Thanks Dbo. Now I'm confused though! *sigh*




OK!
SO.... I think I have a kind of plan, which may or many not be correct or proportional to the risk, but is a plan nonetheless.....

Replace Both Belts & Tensioner (Still auto )
Next, if at all possible replace water pump. (EDIT: But don't necessarily panic if not!)
Next, if still within budget look at crank pulley.
Finally sort the seals if I catch the garage when a gullible temp. is operating the till. (EDIT: Or before everything except Belts/tensioner if leaking).

Then drive it like I stole it.

Dissent, Argument, Thoughts?

PS. Sorry for any misrepresentation in precis.

Thanks again everyone. Appreciated.

EDIT: Thanks AdrianH2B - noted! (HOW MUCH for a water pump! Feck me!)