Lude Generation

I don't own a Prelude (yet), don’t know too much about them mechanically, and I couldn’t find the answer to this in the Wiki. I’ve somehow got it in my head that when 4WS goes wrong, it can be expensive to repair, and one cheaper solution is to convert it to 2WS, is this correct? Also, that 4WS problems are a potential MOT failure? Talking about the MK5, specifically.

4WS on the 5G is an electrical system. There are angle sensors on the steering rack and behind the steering wheel. It also uses the feed from the ABS sensors to determine speed.

Generally speaking, faults tend to occur in the ABS sensors, as they're exposed to the elements. In most cases, simply swapping these will resolve any issues.

If it fails, you get a big '4WS' light on the dash, under new MOT rules I believe all warning lights must go out - so yes, it may well be a fail. When 4WS has failed, the motor in the rear steering rack is disabled, and your wheels are only held straight by a pair of big springs. This is simply to help you limp home, or to a garage - it should not really be driven when in this state,

Find the fault code for a 4WS light and nine times out of ten, it's an easy fix. The other one time, it's a complete ballache - that's when you look into the 2WS conversion.

Thanks for explaining, indigolemon.

So one ABS sensor costs how much? Just a DIY job to replace, or a pro mechanics job?

If you do have to convert to 2WS, does the handling suffer? I’ve read on here that it might improve the handling?

So G4 Preludes 4WS is active at slow speeds, while G5’s are active at both slow and fast, is that correct?

-Z- wrote:Thanks for explaining, indigolemon.

So one ABS sensor costs how much? Just a DIY job to replace, or a pro mechanics job?

2nd hand, anything from free to £30. Two bolts and some clips, deffo DIY

-Z- wrote:If you do have to convert to 2WS, does the handling suffer? I’ve read on here that it might improve the handling?

Subjective one this. I prefer a lude with 4WS, others prefer without - handling is great either way IMO.

-Z- wrote:So G4 Preludes 4WS is active at slow speeds, while G5’s are active at both slow and fast, is that correct?

Both active at slow and fast speeds. Below 30mph the rear wheels turn the opposite way from the fronts to increase manoeuvrability, over 30mph they turn with the fronts to assist lane changing and decrease body roll.

The 5G's has more sophisticated control algorithms.

It makes the car perhaps the best-handling car (wet, dry, hail or whatever) I have ever driven. And yes, I have some excellent others to choose from.

I only bought it to find out WTF LJKS was on about:

LJK Setright: What happened to four-wheel active steering?
The car responds with alacrity and accuracy regardless of your speed
Tuesday, 2 March 2004
So long as they remain in contact with the road, all four tyres of the car share its weight. They also share the task of stopping it; in four-wheel-drive cars they share the burden of making it go; and in all cars, in case you had not realised it, they share the duty of steering.
Conventional cars being what they are (gross travesties of engineering ideals), the rear tyres only get steering instructions by devious means. You turn the steering wheel: the front wheels turn, their tyres begin to generate a lateral force to move the nose of the car.
What happens next is a complex sequence of changing forces, all time-consuming and most of them destabilising, which result in the rear tyres taking on their share of making the car follow the desired course. By stages the car settles into a steady-state cornering mode which should continue until you do something else.
With active steering, all four tyres assume their new duties simultaneously. All those intermediate phases are eliminated: the car responds with alacrity and accuracy, regardless of how fast or how hard you are cornering.
Engineers have been investigating four-wheel steering for a long time. An Italian named Amati built a fine prototype in 1927; a couple of Britons, Freddie Dixon and Tony Rolt, built a frightful one a decade later.
The first hint of modern active steering came in 1983 when Mazda revealed that they were working on a four-wheel-steering system. First in production, though, came the Honda Prelude of 1987, with a system whereby the rear wheels were steered according to the steering input by the driver, and in which road speed was irrelevant.
I was enchanted by it: a succession of 4WS Preludes has served as my personal transport ever since. My present one will have to last the rest of my life, for they do not make them any more.
Deftness, adroitness, sensual gratification, agility, accuracy: all these terms come flooding to mind when trying to explain why this car is nicer to drive than anything else. What may matter most is the supreme ability to dodge, which has saved me from an assortment of accidents involving either errant road-users or things falling off lorries. As a lane-changer, especially at high speeds, the Prelude must be without peer.
Every other manufacturer pronounced it rubbish while privately trying to find a way of equalling it without paying royalties to Honda. Nissan and Mitsubishi produced approximations made farcical by an electronic time-delay, which ruined the effect. BMW tried a version in their 850 coupe, but failed to persevere. The French and Audi VW offered rear-wheel steering that was a disgusting system of squishy suspension mounts, The remainder waited for 4WS to go away, and their judgement was good: it went.
What killed active steering? Car salesmen. People who are good at selling things are not the sort who can explain the dynamic benefits: the most they could do was to point out how much easier it made parking.
It was a tragedy. All sorts of things matter from time to time when driving - brakes, accelerator response, gearbox - but the one thing in use all the time is the steering. To make do with second-best is not merely risky, it is heart-rending. Fancy technology sells cars today, but it has to be something that can be seen. Something that can at best be felt, however worthy, is unlikely to open wallets.



So is an 'Lude more complicated to repair than a Capri? Yes, and TFFT!

Thanks guys. Very helpful

I think some jdm models of skyline and 180sx have 4ws

has saved my ass few times, and some traffic jams too

Lude-dude wrote:I think some jdm models of skyline and 180sx have 4ws

Yeah quite a few Nissans have it, Skylines, S13 and S15, 300ZX, a few other manufacturers have some sort of system but Nissan and Honda seem to have developed it most I think? Pretty sure I read of a new Porsche that has something like 4WS.

Nissan's version is called HICAS and doesn't seem to be anywhere near as drastic (in terms of turn degree, etc) as Honda 4WS, only comes on at something like 55mph+ though.

I like 4WS. Although when you get used to driving a 4WS Prelude and then go to a 2WS car it is a bit odd.

Donald wrote:

Lude-dude wrote:I think some jdm models of skyline and 180sx have 4ws

Yeah quite a few Nissans have it, Skylines, S13 and S15, 300ZX, a few other manufacturers have some sort of system but Nissan and Honda seem to have developed it most I think? Pretty sure I read of a new Porsche that has something like 4WS.

Nissan's version is called HICAS and doesn't seem to be anywhere near as drastic (in terms of turn degree, etc) as Honda 4WS, only comes on at something like 55mph+ though.

I like 4WS. Although when you get used to driving a 4WS Prelude and then go to a 2WS car it is a bit odd.

Pretty much all correct.
From what I know of my mates 300zx, HICAS is passive isn't it? And yes, it's the new Porsche supercar that has a 4WS system that sounds surprisingly familiar...

http://www.ludegeneration.co.uk/post202 ... iar#p20266

That's the one