Opinions on a diesel estate for the Missis...

[wurlycorner]

No I meant, given your particular intention is to put tons of miles on it, are they not already on a high starting point? I don't mean they can't run for lots more still and I personally would have no problem at all buying (and have bought) cars with that kind of mileage, but I don't add anything like that kind of mileage on top.


Bit of an aside, but I'm not convinced about modern cars wearing miles better than older ones tbh - the design life of a car these days is much shorter (throw away culture where a car over ten years old is considered to be 'old' and 'obsolete' for support ) and service intervals have been pushed out massively. Main dealer servicing (certainly on some marques) also leaves a lot to be desired, too. e.g. A friend of mine ran company cars for ten years, which they bought a year old and would run up to 150k and then change them, because after that they found servicing costs increased and resale value plummeted. He had Mundano's most of that time. They insisted on main dealer servicing (as you'd expect) and everytime he took it in when it was due a minor service, he would have to ASK them to change the oil, other wise they wouldn't bother. Most company car owners obviously wouldn't give a jobby, so I wonder what the condition of most ex company mondeo engine internals are really like?
Replacement after market parts for modern cars can also be appalling quality (e.g. don't expect a cheap unbranded/eurocarparts own brand ball joint/droplink to last more than a year) which is what a lot of independents may fit first off. Need to stick to decent branded parts to avoid problems.
I think the main benefit of buying a newer used car is that perishables (rubber components/corrosion etc) obviously haven't got the age problems, so I know where you're coming from.

Don't get me wrong, as I say, I wouldn't have a problem buying a car with that kind of mileage, but just wondering if you aren't better starting off with something on a lower mileage. Or... At least be careful to check in the service history exactly what HAS been done. On cars I've looked at where they have the stamped service book but not the associated works order/receipts, I've rung the relevant dealer and asked them to tell me what work was done - you can find out some interesting stuff (or if you know the proper service schedule, some shocking omissions!)

Just food for thought and like I say, I don't mean a car with 150k is no good - far from it! I've probably not explained myself very well...

[lewd lude lover]

No mate, you have and very well. I totally understand where you are coming from and I agree. She wont be planning on more than 20k a year self employed, against the current 50-60k with her job. that being the case I have been looking for between 100 and 140k max for mileage. Also This first car has a planned life with us of maybe 5 years and I will be doing the servicing myself (brakes, suspension, fluids and filters) resale value is not especially important if it lasts that long.

I agree with you on checking the receipts that go along with the stamps and will be doing just that.

I basically want her to have a decent car under her as she starts out with a view to upgrading it when she is making her own wedge. I started out with a budget of 2k but that proved to be a bit low for the right look (needs to be up to date) so have moved it up a fair few notches. That said it still only needs to do 5-6 years.
Your points as explained are very valid to this exercise. If it was going to be the 50k a year miles still I would be looking at different things for sure...


So, looking at tuning the accord

Found a credible company who economy or stage 1 tune. Can remove DPF and software associated and also the same for the EGR. The economy tune gives realworld mpg at the honda stated numbers and gives a 30% bhp and torque increase...

The stage one takes it to 221bhp and 300ftlb but thats not going to be needed I reckon

[wurlycorner]

Oh 10-20k, yep no worries - I was thinking the 40k+ range

[prelude_h22]

Hi Guys,

Just wanted to add some info - coming from an i-ctdi owner for the last 4 and half years.

I have owned a 2006 Honda Accord saloon ictdi 2.2 diesel for the last 4.5 years and so far it has never let me down or left on the side of a road. It has currently 174k miles and currently running the original clutch, exhaust system,bearings and turbo.

I do around 30k miles a year and average around 58 to 60mpg on the motorway. It is a lovely car to drive and if you like me get the EX model you have quite a few toys as standard.
Auto lights, wipers, touch screen sat nav and premium 8 speaker system, bluetooth, cruise control, electric moving front seats, heated seats, leather interior, auto dimmer middle mirror, sunroof, electric folding mirrors, electric movable mirrors, heated mirrors. Tourer gets electric opening and closing tailgate and if you get the EX - factory subwoofer in the boot.

Just to clarify, the i-ctdi engine in the accord is a completely Honda designed unit. The ctdi unit in the civic as mentioned was an isuzu unit and was not Honda's design.

According a few sources, Honda came late into the diesel game as they wanted to completely design their own engine and not source an engine from another manufacturer.

It is a fantastic engine although they did not get it right the first time although the engine did win quietest diesel engine in 2003 i think. The first units suffered from timing chain tensioner failure, i think it was the oil pump chain.

Honda did rectify this issue in the facelifted model.

I would stay clear of any 2003-2005 accord diesels. Most of the issues experienced were revised on the facelifted model.

2003-2005 pre facelift Accord
2006 - 2008 facelift Accord

Engine code remained the same though N22A.

As with any car it does have its issues but most of which are easily solvable coming from a Honda background.
The forum "honda karma" details and list everything there is to know about the Accord. Indeed A wealth of info!

Quick rundown of various issues known on the facelift accords diesels.

-Aux belt routing was revised (recalled) - causes premature wear of the alternator bearing.
-Manifold was revised - can crack causing fumes to enter cabin (was recalled by Honda)
-Usual Honda rear calipers can stick/seize - tourer is more common as it has push in pistons and not wind in type.
-Bluetooth units can cause battery drain
-EGR valve can stick (vacuum operated) but easily removed and cleaned
-Clutch on these are like cheese so have to drive them with no aggression. Can cost up to 1200 for clutch/dmf/labour to have clutch changed. Can be maintained easily of majority of the drive is on motorway (hence why my clutch has lasted so long)
-The dreaded 66-6 ABS code. ABS pump failure. A sensor within the module pump fails on earlier units. This is a bosch unit. Haha - typical Germans electrical gremlins. Well know on the Accord community and typically effects diesel cars throughout all years of the 7th generation. You can easily drive the car with the fault - providing you have a friendly MOT guy but a place called ECU testing can refurb the unit for around 300 ish quid i think.

These are great cars, cheap and reliable and I wouldnt hesitate in buying another for my next commuting car if my one gave up for any reason.

The key to this engine is oil changes. As the chain relies on the oil for lubrication the 12k service interval was not enough. Majority of the owners changes the oil every 6 to7k miles.
The fab thing about the ictdi engine is that the oil filter is on the top of the engine so servicing is super easy. In the winter all you need is a pela 6000 vacuum pump which sucks the oil out, change the oil filter and done! Then when the summer comes round you can drain the oil from the sump as normal.
It requires 6 litres of 0w 30 oil which can be pricey but all members buy from here (20 litre drum) for around 80 quid posted (with honda karma club discount) which works around 26 quid per service with extra top oil to spare.
http://www.lubetechshop.co.uk/product_i ... cts_id=242

Check Honda Karma out. Everything you need to know about these cars
https://hondakarma.com/threads/faq-faul ... .4643/live

Hope it helps

[lewd lude lover]

cheers man thats really appreciated. To be honest I have pretty much decided on the dtec engine if its an accord. having had a good look its more reliable and more refined and I can stretch the extra cash for an 09/10 car so it will be the gen 8 anyway. They have all over complicated cars in my view. Too many parts to go wrong nowadays. Bloody self adjusting clutches with a thousand parts. asking for trouble.

[lewd lude lover]

Ah, damn it. Spent the night reading up on known faults of B6 passat, 08 onward accord and finally skoda octavia.... So both the passat and the accord have multiple pages of known faults, recalls and failures. All costing grandage to fix. DPF seems to be an ongoing issue for both at the age i am looking at for one thing...

The skoda seems to have a problem with dodgy air vents.... literally that seems to be one of the most obvious reoccurring issues...

Damn it. Now im looking at the skoda again with a serious eye. Reliability is the key with this first motor and the skoda seems to be bullet proof.

[wurlycorner]

Would the dpf be any different in the Passat to the Octavia? I would have thought they would be exactly the same car under the skin? Only difference being the ecu map?

[Andy1000]

I would steer clear of volkswagon group I had horrendous problems with DPF filter on my golf gt sport TDi 170
Dpf filter was replaced twice under warranty also my dad had a Passat and he had issues with the DPF filter from time to time and he did a lot of motorway miles in it

However I found the 2.2 Dtec engine in my Honda CRV fantastic with good mileage, it is an engine that will just cruise all day at low revs doing motorway speeds without any issues and it also has plenty of torque in it if required
The engine also had no DPF issues during my ownership,

So my choice would be the accord tourer or possibly a CRV as they are just a big comfy cruiser

[lewd lude lover]

DPF seems to be an issue regardless but the skoda has almost no internet history where as the passat and the accord are littered with issues. the skoda comes out in all reviews at around 4.2-4.6 out of 5 where as the passat and accord are lucky to get 3.2. economy, reliability and general repair costs are way better.

the dpf seems to only be an issue in the bigger vrs skoda, like no reported issues in the stock 2.0 or the 1.6. The passat is a much more technically advanced (read problematic) car and it suffers from a range of known issues.

Thing is I just want/need a simple, reliable straight forward car. the accord seems very complicated, the passat almost the same, where as the skoda uses older tried and tested tech. Take the rear calipers in the passat. electronic and going to fail. 700 quid minimum. The skoda? normal 'i can work on them' calipers with no reported issues. The accord seems to have a strong clutch but a weak clutch wear sensor. expensive.

accord comes out badly on economy when compared to other cars in its class being lucky to get 80% of stated MPG, where as the CR VAG engine is 93% stated mileage.

Also reported recalls. The passaat and accord have multiple ECU recalls, engine recalls and what not, where as the skoda had 4. 4 recalls in total for the whole range.

Believe me the accord is my 'thats a nice car' choice but given its a new business and she just needs to know its going to work and not be expensive the 1.6 CR skoda is looking like the intelligent choice at the moment. Yes more people will report issues than success on the internet but the sheer lack of reported issues with the skoda, coupled with its simplicity and market beating MPG are certainly turning my head.


take this as the example I am looking at right now.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/skoda-Octavi ... 1438.l2649

110k, full history, '59 plate, under budget and comes with a years warranty on parts and labour. does everything it says on the tin and returns 65mpg against the accords 47. Yes its not a prestige marque, yes its not as fast, yes its more basic less comfy but because of all that its probably the correct choice for a reliable, cheaper to fix first car for her business.

Damn review sites and damn modern complexity in car production.

[RattyMcClelland]

Dpf is only an issue of you use cheap fuel and short journeys.

I got 80k out of my dpf on the 2.0cr euro 5 engine and when I had it hollowed out it was still clean. No issue.