Spark at coil no spark at cap

[waggy0382]

Well I bought it as a non runner, was meant to be running but got parked up and then wouldn’t start, I defiantly have a very good spark at the internal coil, and rotor can only go on one way, and it’s new, along with control module and cap and coil, it’s fixed me as in my head, spark from coil ( providing the cap and rotor are ok) should be spark at cap, the only thing I can think of as it’s throwing an ecu code up is either tdc sensor is pushing the spark at wrong time so it’s not getting to the leads, or same thing but the ecu making it happen, I’m good with anything mechanical, and good with wiring too and fault , but this one’s being a bit unusual
If I get chance tomorrow I’m going to line the engine up to tdc, and see what the static timing is like I think
As you say it may be installed incorrectly maybe 180 degrees out if the previous owner was messing trying to get it started it could be that the original issue was the coil but no has a new one due to fiddling

[Scott560]

Hmmm. Even if the top end was out 180degrees, you'd still get spark on the 4 cap outputs , just in the wrong firing order.

The dizzy is keyed to the camshaft, so its impossible to install it completely out of phase with respect to the valve timing.

The Dizzy does turn to adjust timing, but only a bit, not enough to miss the spark window. The 5th gen rotor is completely round with only a small gap between it and the cap output points.

How are you testing for spark at the HT leads? It wouldn't surprise me if the valve cover isn't grounded by the little lead over by the cambelt side, if its been repainted or similar it might have been left off.

If you are getting no spark at the cap, then either the cap/arm are faulty, or the HT leads are faulty. You sure the HT leads are firmly seated? Have you tried an earthed lead held near the cap outputs? That would help narrow down if its the leads or the testing method.

Looking at this pic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_H_e ... 2AVTEC.jpg

I'm not sure its possible to fit the dizzy so far out of phase so as to miss the spark entirely, but you never know. Worth checking yours is fitted in the same orientation (round bit of cap at top, flat bit towards the gearbox).

Is the fuel pump priming when you turn on ignition?

[wurlycorner]

Ignore me... The post I had put here was bollocks.
I was thinking of a different set up (where the cam position was triggered directly off the cam shaft rather than off the distributor shaft, which would mean you could trigger the coil at a time when the rotor arm wasn't lined up with the posts on the cap - but I don't think it's possible on the TD-60U to install the pickup sensor out of sync???)



EDIT again... As someone else has found out today, it is possible for the timing to slip out within the distributor, after all If the screw that holds the rotor arm to the distributor shaft comes out, the rotor arm can slip on the shaft and go out of time.

[waggy0382]

So with the spark I test it with a test light, one side to earth the other to the live be the light lights up, it works on the coil, and when held slightly away nice big spark, when I hold it on the cap outlets it’s dead, and no spark if held slightly away at the mo I’m thinking tdc sensor maybe not throwing spark out at right time, I’ve ordered a complete dizzy now to eliminate that or my iffy wiring inside
I literally had a similar issue on another car I had where dizzy cap and rotor arm were brand new but faulty, and that was actually a rebuilt dizzy unused by a well known reconditioning company !

With the tdc sensor it looks like it can only go in one place, but it doesn’t appear to be having a current to or from it on the wires so keeps popping back into my head

[waggy0382]

So ecu and new distributor arrived today, it was the ecu stoping the spark in the end, now have a nice spark at the plugs, not actually running yet but have fuel getting through, so I’m guessing either it’s just timing up the new distributor or maybe nasty old fuel from where it’s been sitting, she almost fired but not quite will grab some new fuel and my timing light and see if that works at the weekend

[Scott560]

Glad you got it sorted! unusual for an ECU to be faulty...

The process for checking the timing is only on a running engine. I suspect the car would start even with the distributor out of timing...

The process is listed in the manual, but goes something like:

1) warm the car up to temperature.
2) shut off engine.
3) short out the 2 pin ECU diagnostic plug in the cabin, this puts it into fixed timing mode (18degrees rings a bell).
4) connect up your flash gun to the battery and cylinder 1 HT lead.
5) remove the rubber bung near the gearbox under the distributor to see the flywheel and reference pointer.
6) stick the light in there, you should see 2 little metal pointers, and the dizzy is turned until the flywheel mark persists between the 2 pointers.
7) lock the dizzy position off, unbridge the connector in the cabin, job done.

I have had the mark on the flywheel barely visible once before, just a rusty indent on a rusty flywheel - I had to turn it over by hand, and then use a tiny paint brush to put a dab of white house paint on the flywheel mark. This made life so much easier so probably worth doing that first otherwise the exhaust manifold only gets hot and in the way.

Setting the static timing properly will make a good difference to how it runs, but it should still start even if its off (set it about half way is probably the safest default!)

[waggy0382]

That’s great thank you
I thought it would be the dizzy tbh, but as the code was throwing up ecu and I managed to get one for £90 I thought it was worth eliminating, new dizzy showed some symptoms as old, was only when the ecu went on that it showed signs of life again

[Vtecmec]

15 degrees for the timing light..

[waggy0382]

Just to let you know she’s up and running, so after finally getting a spark it was a bit touch and go as was strong then weak, swapped out the plugs and she started right up, timmed it all up and took it out for a drive
Thank you everyone for the help and advise

[vanzep]

nice
another lude back on the road is always good news