4WS Not working. Some debugging already done SOLVED

[AeroNotix]

I've translated also the "neutral electronic steering sensor alignment" part of the 5th gen 4WS but I absolutely cannot get it to work for me.

Has any one actually done the 4WS sensor alignment on a 5th gen? The parts where you have to do things like pull the handbrake twice and move the steering wheel to specific angles left and right?

[AeroNotix]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ev0 ... aExwE/edit here's a line for line translation of the neutral steering procedure. I will finesse it into better English when I have more time. Me and the wife quickly went over it so it makes sense.

[AeroNotix]

I'm pulling my hair out now.

I've tested or swapped every sensor and tried to perform neutral alignment many times. I cannot for the life of me get it to work.

What I've done:

replaced main front sensor (behind the wheel) with one I got from Lankysod07 and was purported to be from a working 4WS system. I've replaced the main rear angle sensor from a unit claimed to be working. I've ran through the whole 4WS debugging routines. Lacking only an oscilloscope to properly check if signals were in-phase with each other. I rigged up a ghetto oscilloscope from an arduino which was able to capture what looked like the signals being in phase with each other.

I've checked each and every pin on the 4WS unit according to the 5gen 4WS manual and I have the voltages, voltage range or ground that the manual explains should be there.

At this point my only remaining option is to replace the 4WS ECU itself. I may have a guy locally which has one that he can lend prior to me purchasing it if it fixes it.

Is anyone reading this? Some commiserations would be appreciated! Input even moreso!

[AeroNotix]

[youtube][/youtube]

[Scott560]

I'm pulling my hair out now.

I've tested or swapped every sensor and tried to perform neutral alignment many times. I cannot for the life of me get it to work.

What I've done:

replaced main front sensor (behind the wheel) with one I got from Lankysod07 and was purported to be from a working 4WS system. I've replaced the main rear angle sensor from a unit claimed to be working. I've ran through the whole 4WS debugging routines. Lacking only an oscilloscope to properly check if signals were in-phase with each other. I rigged up a ghetto oscilloscope from an arduino which was able to capture what looked like the signals being in phase with each other.

I've checked each and every pin on the 4WS unit according to the 5gen 4WS manual and I have the voltages, voltage range or ground that the manual explains should be there.

At this point my only remaining option is to replace the 4WS ECU itself. I may have a guy locally which has one that he can lend prior to me purchasing it if it fixes it.

Is anyone reading this? Some commiserations would be appreciated! Input even moreso!

Can't remember if I pulled the 4ws ECU out my old lude. I'll check the garage when I get back from the dentist's. It's an early R reg one from an h22a5 model. It's yours if you need it for peanuts...

I've never had trouble on either lude with 4ws, the older lude was prone to needing the reset. The cause of that was generally low rpm and high steering angle. I think the rack was stiff and low rpm meant low system voltage so it couldn't achieve the desired angle and through a code (always in carparks basically) but the rest process always worked...

Sent from my MIX using Tapatalk

[PreludePete]

Have you a photo/diagram of what the 4ws ECU looks like?

I had a load of spares for a 5th gen auto given to me and I dont know what half the stuff is!
If I have one you can have it for the postage.

my 4ws would not work on my silver 5t get manual when I disconnected/reconnected the battery recently and I had no option but to go my local Swansway Honda garage to fix it, which they did at a reasonable cost. Maybe worth checking out your local Honda garage and find out if they can fix it and for how much!

Sorry Im not much help on the tech side!

Pete

[wurlycorner]

Yes, there are plenty of us reading this, just not many that have had problems with the 4ws system in a 5g, so not many that can offer assistance I suspect. I can certainly off some considerations/condolences though and congratulate on all the things you have done - sounds like very thorough fault finding, well done for persevering with it.
What fault code are you now getting? Has it changed throughout all the things you have done?
Have you 'belled' (point-point continuity tested) out all of the wiring loom to ensure that's in good health? The manuals voltage/ground checks might miss something there.

[AeroNotix]

I'm pulling my hair out now.

I've tested or swapped every sensor and tried to perform neutral alignment many times. I cannot for the life of me get it to work.

What I've done:

replaced main front sensor (behind the wheel) with one I got from @Lankysod07 and was purported to be from a working 4WS system. I've replaced the main rear angle sensor from a unit claimed to be working. I've ran through the whole 4WS debugging routines. Lacking only an oscilloscope to properly check if signals were in-phase with each other. I rigged up a ghetto oscilloscope from an arduino which was able to capture what looked like the signals being in phase with each other.

I've checked each and every pin on the 4WS unit according to the 5gen 4WS manual and I have the voltages, voltage range or ground that the manual explains should be there.

At this point my only remaining option is to replace the 4WS ECU itself. I may have a guy locally which has one that he can lend prior to me purchasing it if it fixes it.

Is anyone reading this? Some commiserations would be appreciated! Input even moreso!

Can't remember if I pulled the 4ws ECU out my old lude. I'll check the garage when I get back from the dentist's. It's an early R reg one from an h22a5 model. It's yours if you need it for peanuts...

I've never had trouble on either lude with 4ws, the older lude was prone to needing the reset. The cause of that was generally low rpm and high steering angle. I think the rack was stiff and low rpm meant low system voltage so it couldn't achieve the desired angle and through a code (always in carparks basically) but the rest process always worked...

Sent from my MIX using Tapatalk

That's a thought. My power steering "groans" at low speed turns and clearly puts strain on the engine when it's cold. I notice a drop in RPM when this happens. I guess this also could be dropping voltage enough? Worth looking into.

Have you a photo/diagram of what the 4ws ECU looks like?

I had a load of spares for a 5th gen auto given to me and I dont know what half the stuff is!
If I have one you can have it for the postage.

my 4ws would not work on my silver 5t get manual when I disconnected/reconnected the battery recently and I had no option but to go my local Swansway Honda garage to fix it, which they did at a reasonable cost. Maybe worth checking out your local Honda garage and find out if they can fix it and for how much!

Sorry Im not much help on the tech side!

Pete

Don't worry about "not being much help". I'm a programmer by day and one of the "concepts" we have about working through a problem is called "rubber duck debugging" where you simply describe the problem to a rubber duck (or someone else!) and through talking about it and explaining it the solution may appear. Even if people on here don't drop the solution in my lap being able to talk about it is very useful.

Do you know what your Honda garage fixed on your 4WS system by any chance?

I have a very good Honda garage around the corner from me which is kind of "famous" in the Honda scene in Poland but they're absolutely swamped. Running through the diagnostics for a 5th gen 4WS is not a straightforward and quick process. They've booked me in for it mid-January if I can't get it going my self.

Yes, there are plenty of us reading this, just not many that have had problems with the 4ws system in a 5g, so not many that can offer assistance I suspect. I can certainly off some considerations/condolences though and congratulate on all the things you have done - sounds like very thorough fault finding, well done for persevering with it.
What fault code are you now getting? Has it changed throughout all the things you have done?
Have you 'belled' (point-point continuity tested) out all of the wiring loom to ensure that's in good health? The manuals voltage/ground checks might miss something there.

I've not gone wire-by-wire and checked continuity, no. I will grab the wiring diagram and have a go at that. I assumed since at the ECU I'm getting what I think is all the correct measurements that it implies I don't have any wiring issues. That said, it's not going to hurt, right?

I'm getting fault code 21. This has not changed throughout all my debugging. The only time I got something different is when I plugged in (but not mount) the other entire rear 4WS assembly. The second hand one I got had a broken auxiliary angle sensor and it started throwing code 23 when I changed that.

BTW I've noticed that the fault code listing which is floating about online for 4WS is not for a 5th gen 4WS system. It's for a third generation.

I know it's in Polish but here's the table from the 5th gen 4WS section: https://i.imgur.com/37xm0jm.jpg

I've got most of all this section translated by now and will drop a link to the above when I get a moment. However, code 21 reads: "Uneven signals between the main rear angle sensor and the auxiliary sensor." To be perfectly honest "Nierowne signaly" kind of throws me a bit. I don't quite get how to translate that properly and I've asked a few Poles and they just say "Uneven signals" which I am sure is not the correct translation.

If you follow the diagnostics section for code 21 and reach the end (as I have ) it tells you to perform the diagnostics as if you have code 10. Code 10 is described as "Front auxiliary angle sensor out of bounds." I've done the diagnostics for code 10 and find the sensor/signal within range.

Today my local guy should get back to me about whether he has a 4WS ECU and I'll drop that in just to rule it out, if not, tomorrow a friend may be coming by with a three channel oscilloscope! I hope with a proper oscilloscope I can for sure see whether or not I have the signals "in-phase" with each other.

BTW: the signals being "in-phase" with each other should look like this:

The above diagram isn't explained but from what I can tell it should act like a rotary encoder. As you turn the wheel one way or the other you should see the signals A and B change which is "leading" (Faza-A, Faza-B) and the Z signal should act as the "clock" signal from what I can tell.

By the ECU seeing which of A or B is leading and by how much they are out of phase with each other I believe this is how the ECU reads the angle.

All will be revealed with an oscilloscope. My ghetto arduino oscilloscope cannot do live data as the bandwidth is just far too low and it relies on interrupts on rising/falling signals.

EDIT: here's an idea. I'll reset the 4WS codes and unplug sensors one by one. There's a code for both "missing signal" and "incorrect signal" for each sensor. If the code doesn't change when I unplug things I think it could indicate a wiring or ECU issue.

[PreludePete]

Checked the bill but no description of what they did to fix 4WS.

Diagnostic check and fix was £55.00.

I'm thinking of changing my call sign to "Rubber Duck"!

Will look on 5th gen diagrams for visual of ECU. If I have one I will let you know.

Pete

[AeroNotix]

This is what the 4WS ECU looks like: https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTAyNFg1NzY= ... p/$_86.JPG

From my research it doesn't matter what car they came out of as they are all the same. In fact, there's no real reason why the whole 4WS system cannot be swapped into any 5g Prelude no matter what "main" ECU it is running as the 4WS sensors and 4WS ECU is an entirely isolated system.