Pulling to the left

89 UKDM BA4 4WS (resto job!) · Post by **wurlycorner** » Mon May 20, 2013 2:31 pm

Can't find much of help in the manual that refers to how the car actually traps the key in the ignition switch, but the diagram on page 23-91 of the service manual suggests the "neutral safety switch" part of the "shift lever position console switch" takes a Black/White wire from the ignition switch and makes across to a Black/Red wire (i.e. that's how it tells when the box is in neutral).

So I presume that's the signal it takes to determine whether it's safe to remove the key?
And on that basis, if you short those 2 wires on the shift switch, it should think the gearbox is always in neutral (or park) and shouldn't trap the key in the ignition???

(Not sure - just surmising/suggesting there...)

EDIT:
Page 23-184/23-185 says pins 13-15 (LHD, or pins 13-14 RHD) on the shift switch are made when the box is in neutral or park and refers to this as "Neutral Safety Switch" so yep, I'd try shorting those 2 wires and it shouldn't trap the key.

Just hope the 4WS system on auto cars doesn't like to know whether the car is in drive or reverse!

89 UKDM BA4 4WS (resto job!) · Post by **wurlycorner** » Mon May 20, 2013 2:43 pm

Scratch that - FOUND IT!

It's covered in one of the supplement documents, 62ss020, page 23-56 to 23-65
http://media.honda.co.uk/car/owner/medi ... 2ss020.pdf

Looking at the diagram in the manual, I'd say the solenoid bit for locking the ignition key is the shiny box on the right of the switch, in this pic of yours;

It's more than just a 'trap the key in the ignition' interlock though, it's a 2-way job that is also meant to stops someone changing into reverse unless the brake pedal is pressed

I'd suggest reading that section in the supplement to see what else of that system is still in your car and what it's all connected into etc.

Bludge · Post by **Bludge** » Mon May 20, 2013 2:51 pm

Thats awesome, thanks wurly! will have a good read and see what i can come up with.

89 UKDM BA4 4WS (resto job!) · Post by **wurlycorner** » Mon May 20, 2013 3:06 pm

A bit of a closer look suggests there might possibly be some sort of tentative relation into the 4WS, as the interlock circuit takes a feed from a wire that feeds into the ABS ECU (Green/White) pg 23-58/23-60

And Oh God, there's further changes with more interlocking on some models too, covered in supplement 62ss022
http://media.honda.co.uk/car/owner/medi ... 2ss022.pdf
pages 23-6 to 23-12

Hope that helps, but good luck!!!

Bludge · Post by **Bludge** » Mon May 20, 2013 3:35 pm

Gah.

Well looking at the diagrams im wondering if i can remove or cut power to just the solenoid at the ignition barrel end without it causing problems elsewhere. it must be possible as its obviously tied into the interior lights fuse and everything is fine (except the interior lights) with it out. so its just a case of finding and cutting the correct wires i guess!

Or taking a hammer to it.

Or getting a torch for when its dark....

Seriously though, if im ever in essex i owe you a beer wurly!

kris_aka_edu · Post by **kris_aka_edu** » Mon May 20, 2013 3:47 pm

Fook me this is a hell of a lot to read! I had problems with my steering when I got the car it would steer one way fine but the steering wheel would be lighter turning the other way. I got the tracking done and sorted it. Then my 4ws light kept staying on, simple battery off for 20 mins and back on again and all ok. If it was anything any where near as complicated as this I would of just burst into tears! (Not literally)
Good luck!!

kris_aka_edu · Post by **kris_aka_edu** » Mon May 20, 2013 3:51 pm

Oh and also sometimes the light will come on and stay on when I start the car, I drive it down the road make sure it's in a straight line, drop down a gear, keep clutch down, turn egnition off, turn back on, put in gear, clutch up car starts again and it's all good. Poof light goes off! Easier to do it when going faster I do it on the A1 practically every day and works all the time. If it doesn't work then I have to reset the battery but only had to do that once in 8 months.

89 UKDM BA4 4WS (resto job!) · Post by **wurlycorner** » Mon May 20, 2013 4:52 pm

That sounds like a speed sensor problem Kris.
I used to use that trick on my UKDM when it was intermittently failing, until it went hard fault and the code confirmed it was a rear sensor.

Well I'd be pleased to join you for a beer Bludge, but no need for it - happy to help and feel a bit gutted the ECU I sold you didn't sort the problem.

Yep, might as well try cutting those wires to the solenoid I reckon. (Just do it somewhere with enough slack so if it doesn't like it, you can re-join them!!!)

Bludge · Post by **Bludge** » Mon May 20, 2013 6:43 pm

To be honest mate the ecu has pretty much done the trick, with the fuse out for the interior lights it works 99% of the time and is fantastic.
I will try cutting the wires to the solenoid, the only reason i didnt try it the other day is its all so tight in there im worried i might not be able to get the back together!

And if im ever in essex they are on me mate, you have helped out so much.

And kris i have burst into tears on more then one occasion trying to sort it all out!!

On a side note, what is a good price for 4ws tracking? i got directed to a place by my local honda dealer who quoted me about £65, is that a good price?

Bludge · Post by **Bludge** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:48 pm

Right, some updates. after working great for a while and only needing the occasional reset, the 4ws system has gone back to working very rarely.

I get code 62, and pulling the fuse to reset does nothing, and i still have code 62 after trying to reset (even without starting the engine)

The only time the 4ws seems to work at the moment is after a heavy rainfall.

I presumed that it was a dodgy connection on the actuator, as thats the only part i can see being affected by rainfall, i cleaned up the earth and had a look at the other connections, all of which looked fine.

Bridging the 2 cables together for the shift position box in the auto to manual guide doesnt seem to work for me with the key interlock, but with the shift position box still connected up, i have managed to move the slider into a position where i can get the key out, start the car, and have interior lights/cigarette lighter/intermittant wipers.

I still dont know if the 4ws issues are linked to the shift position box. i will run it in its current configuration and if it springs in to life at some point i presume it cant be linked.

I am very close to giving up, installing a 2ws subframe and putting the car up for sale.