Timing belt shifted slightly off my cam gears!?

Post by **SPYDOR** » Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:29 am

A mind of it's own
So, I had my engine apart the last couple of days, took out the camshafts, rocker shafts and replaced all my Lost Motion Assemblies, only to put it all back together and find that my timing belt has shifted about 2mm towards the front of the engine...

It's now sitting about 1.5mm over the edge of the cam gears, so I'm a little worried about it possibly rubbing on the case and wearing prematurely. I had the H23 manual tensioner conversion fitted by PAW about 5 years/42,000 miles ago, when I first had all the belts changed but I'm not sure how you go about adjusting it, so I removed the camshafts by pivoting them and reseated by levering them in place while screwing down the camshaft caps.

Why you little...
I tried pushing the belt while cranking the engine but it kept moving back to it's new position once I removed the pressure.

I also removed the camshafts a 2nd time and reseated them, making sure to push the belt as far forward as I could but it ended up moving out again after a few rotations.

Camshafts are in the same position as before, I didn't undo the cam gears, they are tight and in-line with each other. Only took the middle belt cover off and didn't touch anything else related to the belts so not sure why this has happened. I've read a few posts suggesting I might need to slack off all the tension then re-tighten it to help with alignment but I'm not sure exactly what's involved?

A penny for your thoughts
Can I remove the lower belt cover without taking off the crank pulley? I don't have the tools to get that pulley off so didn't want to even attempt it. I wasn't sure if I could support the oil pan with a jack, remove the side engine mount, both belt covers then undo the manual tensioner somehow?

I've run the engine with the top belt cover off and it seems louder from the belt area but that might be normal as the cover is off.

Anyone had this problem or know how to get to and adjust the manual tensioner? HALP!!

89 UKDM BA4 4WS (resto job!) · Post by **wurlycorner** » Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:11 am

Sorry to hear this dude. Yep, you need to Re-tension the belt. If you look in the oem service manual it'll tell you how to do it with the manual tensioner (follow the H23 engine instructions). It'll probably tell you to use a special tool to measure the tension, but you can just do it by feel (how much it deflects by hand and how much you can twist it). There's probably a video on you tube explaining it too, I should imagine

Cam shafts should be installed with no tension on the pulleys, otherwise you risk bending the shaft while you tighten them down (very very unlikely, so don't worry about yours) or not seating square in their bearings. Suggest once you've got the belt slackened off from the tensioner, you slacken off the camshaft caps, give the camshafts a little turn back/forth and float in/out and then re-torque them in sequence. (he says, not having actually taken the cams out of an H22 engine so not knowing exactly what is involved in how they are secured into the head...).

I don't think it's possible to remove the lower cover without removing the pulley.

mercutio · Post by **mercutio** » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:27 am

if its only the tensioner that's been changed and nothing else has been disturbed I would just retension it buddy don't worry about the cams then see how it runs on the pulleys/gears and adjust accordingly

89 UKDM BA4 4WS (resto job!) · Post by **wurlycorner** » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:42 am

Not woken up properly yet merc? (or just too bored to read Spydor and my diatribes in full

)
Tensioner hasn't been changed or adjusted, it's the camshafts and rocker shafts that have been out, without the cambelt being slackened off merc.

mercutio · Post by **mercutio** » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:45 am

wurlycorner wrote: Not woken up properly yet merc? (or just too bored to read Spydor and my diatribes in full )
Tensioner hasn't been changed or adjusted, it's the camshafts and rocker shafts that have been out, without the cambelt being slackened off merc.

bit of both

I would still put the effort into the tensioner the float on the cams is so small or should be that it shouldn't affect belt walk at all the tensioner will be where the issue is

Post by **vanzep** » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:52 am

I dont know much about this problem your having but when i fitted my manual tensioner kit i did think that the main bolt/spindle thing that the pulleys sit on looked a bit thin/weak - (probably just my overactive imagination)-but i would check that this hasnt been bent-if it has it could cause the belt to move out a bit. the only adjustment for tension is a little lever held in place by a screw - when the belt is fitted to the manual tensioner its incredibly tight - even when set to minimum - you may want to look at that first

Post by **SPYDOR** » Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:23 am

Gonna let it idle for longer today and keep checking it over the next few days as I left the top belt cover off for now - partly because I can't get one of the bolt back in due to a misaligned hole in in the cover!

Will have a think about whether to just get a garage to change all my belts or maybe just get a garage to break the torque on the crank pulley bolt (as suggested by @Vtecmec) and see about changing the belts myself in a couple of weeks (or at the very least re-tensioning them).

Post by **SPYDOR** » Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:13 pm

Booked into my local Honda dealer to get the timing belts done tomorrow. Can't complain at £210. It's been 5 years since they were last changed and I'm pushed for time now; this way I won't have to worry about a belt destroying itself over the next few weeks!

89 UKDM BA4 4WS (resto job!) · Post by **wurlycorner** » Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:02 pm

That's a lot cheaper than my local dealer quoted me when I asked earlier this year! That's the original Honda Happiness price, which they all seemed to have abandoned?

Post by **SPYDOR** » Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:09 pm

Well, its not all gravy. I've asked them to flush and change the coolant while their at it but they charge £65 for that!?! Evens it out abit but overall still a reasonable price. Saves me trying to find then undo that pesky coolant bolt at the back of the block though!