Bad misfire under load

[hoppi05]

Diagnostic plug buddy

Yes I understand it moves but with adjustment we could not get it to 15 fully turned anti clockwise and the car sounded and run horrific so we set it there and when it drove it went to 0 or 30 or a minus???

[hoppi05]

One issue has just come to mind rereading what you noted is knowing how the engine is tdc from outside as there are no markings or indication plate on this conversion like in the manual????

[Merlin]

I have seen it before that you cannot get base timing to 15 BTDC, the issue was that the timing belt was not installed properly and that the teeth on the timing belt/cam gears was misaligned.

Please forgive me if this is exactly what you did:

With ignition off short the service connector with a paperclip/wire
With the service connector still shorted out start the engine
The engine will sound like a bag of crap, especially if base timing is way out
Engine rpm will raise and fall when retarding / advancing timing through rotating the distributor
Using a timing gun attached to the spark cable from cylinder 1, rotate distributor accordingly until the timing needle on the gearbox housing points to 15 BTDC. 15 BTDC and +/- 2 degrees is marked on the flywheel
Turn off engine and remove paperclip/wire from the service connector
If the engine still runs poorly check all ignition components
If the engine still runs poorly check ECU, swap out for known good ECU
If the engine still runs poorly double check wiring just in case
If it is still not running correctly check the mechanical timing of the timing belt?

[Merlin]

One issue has just come to mind rereading what you noted is knowing how the engine is tdc from outside as there are no markings or indication plate on this conversion like in the manual????

What do you mean? knowing where TDC is should only be an issue when installing a new timing belt, even then it is not essential if you mark the belt properly. But there should be a TDC mark on the flywheel too.

[wurlycorner]

If all else is lost, the way you find TDC is by making sure that the piston (usually No.1 but check for the H22, I've never looked up the firing order myself) is right at the top, with all valves closed, at the end of the 'up' stroke after the inlet valve has opened and closed.

Obviously this needs the rocker cover off so you can watch the valves.
You can tell whether the piston is all the way up by taking the spark plug out, dropping a long thin wooden or plastic thing in there and watch it go up and down as you rotate the engine by hand.

If the piston is at the top of its stroke and any valves are slightly open at this point in time, then your cam to crank timing is out (cambelt installed with the cam/crank pulleys in the wrong position in relation to each other)

[Merlin]

Stick a long screw driver down one of the spark plug holes? That wouldn't require the rocker cover off?

The flywheel can only go on one way as there is a location pin that the flywheel sits on, the flywheel is on the crank so the timing belt side of the crank will be set the same. Only if the timing belt is on wrong should anything else matter. If the timing belt is on wrong it will give the wrong timing to the cams, the distributor is directly connected to the exhaust cam.

Like Wurly say if there is any part of the mechanical timing that is out you wont be able to set ignition timing properly.

[wurlycorner]

Stick a long screw driver down one of the spark plug holes? That wouldn't require the rocker cover off?

Obviously this needs the rocker cover off so you can watch the valves.

Your day for speed reading today merlin?



EDIT: ps yes I use screwdrivers too, but I can't advise someone else to do that, 'cause it's naughty... can easily lightly score or dent the top of the pistons...

[hoppi05]

thanks for all the help guys

i will try and clarify things:

Using a timing gun attached to the spark cable from cylinder 1, rotate distributor accordingly until the timing needle on the gearbox housing points to 15 BTDC. 15 BTDC and +/- 2 degrees is marked on the flywheel

we have a B series box and these markings are not on there and my friend who has performed these conversions in the past has not needed them, this could be down to not having to do the timing?

we did put a new belt on and we made sure we had TDC set and lines aligned, we also locked the cams so they would not move during installation so slipping a tooth would be made harder etc.

as i say we got the BTDC readings from his scan tool on the fly with the jumper set and when set fully and when fully turned anti clockwise we got to the range of 14 to 16 so with tolerence, so we set it and whenwe drove the car it was the worse it had been????

i could understand if the TDC is wrong on the belt which it very well could be even though it was checked 4 or 5 times but if it was i would expect other issues and not simultaneous issues across all 4 cylinders (quoting the guy here) or do you think we wold see this if it was out?

again not an easy one he thinks one or more of the igintion parts in the dizzy was faulty???

i dont want to have to take the engine out again lol

[Merlin]

Merlin wrote:
Stick a long screw driver down one of the spark plug holes? That wouldn't require the rocker cover off?





wurlycorenr wrote:
Obviously this needs the rocker cover off so you can watch the valves.



Your day for speed reading today merlin?



EDIT: ps yes I use screwdrivers too, but I can't advise someone else to do that, 'cause it's naughty... can easily lightly score or dent the top of the pistons...

I think we have crossed wires. Do you need to watch the valves you use a long screw driver as it will be touching the top of piston 1. Piston 1 at is highest position shows where TDC is does it not? Your edit is true, wrap in in some electrical tape

[wurlycorner]

we have a B series box and these markings are not on there and my friend who has performed these conversions in the past has not needed them, this could be down to not having to do the timing?

the timing marks are on the flywheel though?
Do you have to fit a difference H22 flywheel when fitting it to a B-series box?