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Another idle thread about idling

Engine/Gearbox questions and discussion
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wurlycorner
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Another idle thread about idling

Post by wurlycorner » Tue May 07, 2013 12:09 pm

After 2.5 days slogging on the house, I finally made it out into the sun yesterday evening to start looking into the idling problem on the JDM.

It starts fine and controls the idle absolutely fine during warm up (no racing etc) and the nominal idle speed is fine but after a blip of the throttle, or when you come up to lights etc the revs momentarily drop too low like it's going to die, before recovering fine.

I only had a couple of hours before it got dark.
First up was checking the coolant level/air locks at the bleed point. All good.

Next up was the fitv seat.
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That seemed nice and tight, so moved onto the egr valve.
First thing to say was WTF? HOW TIGHT? I broke a socket trying to undo the 2 nuts! :shock:
Anyway, got it off in the end. Nicely coked up, as expected.
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This was after the first couple of squirts of carb cleaner - I got bored taking pics after that, but it was seriously bad!
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Some of you might have noticed some corrosion around the valve port in that one and you're right - the bore is quite badly pitted in a couple of areas and corrosion was making it stand proud (not blowing by though).

After more cleaning and filing the face to get it flush/clean, it had improved to this
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Because of the pitting around the port I re-assembled it with some hylomar on this face (didn't use any on the manifold because that was fine).

The throttle body/butterfly valve was properly grubby so that all got a good spray/wipe clean too (mental note to self, don't push the kitchen roll quite so far inside with the butterfly valve held open again :facepalm: )

That was it for last night.

And the result? Engine is slightly smoother under acceleration, but the idle hasn't changed at all really.

Think the fitv and IACV need to come off for a good clean next.

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Post by Ammo » Tue May 07, 2013 12:20 pm

Have you got the right level of coolant in your expansion bottle?

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Post by NafemanNathan » Tue May 07, 2013 12:26 pm

It could still be the FITV if you've tightened it right up. Try backing it up a quarter turn.

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Post by BMCC » Tue May 07, 2013 12:29 pm

Probably just need to up the base idle a bit. You'd need to pull the IACV connector (when fully warm) and connect a tachometer to see what it is sitting at once the IACV can't interfere. Should be around 500-550rpm I think (the manual will tell you though).

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Post by wurlycorner » Tue May 07, 2013 3:16 pm

Cheers for all the responses guys
Ammo wrote:Have you got the right level of coolant in your expansion bottle?
Yep, that's all spot on.
This car has always had this idling issue since when I bought it, since when it's had coolant changed (twice, for different reasons) and nothing about the idling has ever changed.
I'm used to bleeding lude systems too, so there's nothing that suggests this one's coolant related to me.
(I did still re-check it all first though, just to be sure and hope for a quick win!) :lol:
NafemanNathan wrote:It could still be the FITV if you've tightened it right up. Try backing it up a quarter turn.
I didn't tighten it at all - it didn't budge, seemed fully tight already.
If it's meant to be backed off a turn or so, that's a truly crap design, surely? With the engine vibration, there's no way it'll stay in adjustment for more than a day or so?! :?
@honda-hardy did you back yours off a tiny bit or leave it tightened right up?
BMCC wrote:Probably just need to up the base idle a bit. You'd need to pull the IACV connector (when fully warm) and connect a tachometer to see what it is sitting at once the IACV can't interfere. Should be around 500-550rpm I think (the manual will tell you though).
Well the tacho doesn't work on this car at all so I admit I don't know what it actually idles at, but comparing it to my UKDM (which has no idle problems and idles where it should do) it feels/seems the same, so I'd kind of dismissed that? You might be right though.
I think a mate has got a hand held tacho - if so I'll give that a try next weekend.

I think I'm still gonna check the IACV and fitv in the meantime, just to be sure - it can't do any harm to service them after all this time.

What I want to avoid is hiding any real problem by just compensating for it by turning the idle up. (I know that's not what you're suggesting, but it's easy to do that without trying)

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Post by NafemanNathan » Tue May 07, 2013 3:32 pm

wurlycorner wrote:
NafemanNathan wrote:It could still be the FITV if you've tightened it right up. Try backing it up a quarter turn.
I didn't tighten it at all - it didn't budge, seemed fully tight already.
If it's meant to be backed off a turn or so, that's a truly crap design, surely? With the engine vibration, there's no way it'll stay in adjustment for more than a day or so?! :?
@honda-hardy did you back yours off a tiny bit or leave it tightened right up?
It is indeed a floored design, hence why after time they can slacken of and unscrew. It is a variable resistance though, so without a physical reading it's a trial and error thing. The FITV is supposed to let air flow through when the engine's cold. When it's warm and running fine it no longer requires this additional air so becomes closed. Mine on the 3rd was faulty and wasn't able to close fully and that gave me the opposite problem of revving high on idle. Your engine for whatever reason may still be dependant on having a little air circulation via the FITV even when the engine is warm. I'm definitely not saying it's the cause of your issue (It's more likely to be your IACV), but don't dismiss it entirely. Could just be one of those freak things.

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Post by wurlycorner » Tue May 07, 2013 4:00 pm

Oh no, definitely not dismissing it Nafe, wasn't meant to read that way - that's one of the reasons I started with that valve and still plan to take it off for a good look-see.


I've been wondering whether sticking some thread-lock on the ring is a good idea (once everything's hunkey-dory). Should be possible to do that without sticking up any of the rest of the valve and it would stop it coming undone under vibration in future?
Anyone got any thoughts on that?

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Post by NafemanNathan » Tue May 07, 2013 4:15 pm

wurlycorner wrote:Oh no, definitely not dismissing it Nafe, wasn't meant to read that way - that's one of the reasons I started with that valve and still plan to take it off for a good look-see.


I've been wondering whether sticking some thread-lock on the ring is a good idea (once everything's hunkey-dory). Should be possible to do that without sticking up any of the rest of the valve and it would stop it coming undone under vibration in future?
Anyone got any thoughts on that?
I didn't take it that way :) Don't take what I said in a harsh tone either :lol: I think after the whole "Newkid-on-the-blob" thing I need to be careful with how I word things, so I don't come across as "opinionate", but more caring instead ;-) I'd use more smilies, but I'm already concious of how OTT I am with them :oops: :roll: :lol: :facepalm: I'm hoping the people who have actually met me see me different to how Newkid took me :?

:D

I'd say a small amount of thread-lock would work. I wouldn't use the strong strong stuff though. The lock-ring as you've probably found out chews up easily, so just in case you do ever need to re-adjust it (Say if there is another cause to your dilema, that you do evertually fix and thus the FITV needs to be re-adjusted again).

Whilst my lock-ring was removed I actually cut a new slot into it, for future use just in case I knackered up the original one entirely.

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Post by wurlycorner » Tue May 07, 2013 4:27 pm

Nope, no harsh tone came across there Nafe, don't stress!!!

Good call on the extra slot, like the idea of that.

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Post by NafemanNathan » Tue May 07, 2013 4:46 pm

wurlycorner wrote:Nope, no harsh tone came across there Nafe, don't stress!!!
See I wasn't stressing either ;) :lol:

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