When is a car not the same car?

89 UKDM BA4 4WS (resto job!) · Post by **wurlycorner** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:14 pm

Just looked up to satisfy my curiosity...
http://www.fastfordmag.co.uk/files/old/FAF243BUYER.pdf

Can't be sure if the shell is the same, the suspension, steering and brakes are different, so in theory that could be just bolt on/swap over, but

the RS broke the mould with a rearranged front anti-roll bar and tie-bar set-up

Potentially it might have different mounting points?

Shell authenticity does affect value by the looks;

Getting lumbered with a ringer or a spruced-up XR is bad news. Make sure all the numbers tally with the V5 (look for WFOBXXGCAB followed by either C for 1982 or D for 1983 and then the five digit engine number) and that the RS was actually made when the logbook says.

So yeah, I think in the ford fratenity, it looks like you would definitely struggle (very hard!) to claim it is an Rs1600i with a zetec engine and the wrong shell

What I didn't realise/hadn't given credit to it for before reading that article (because I struggle to give credit to such things from my essex youf) was how different/improved it was from the standard car and the xr3...

Post by **NafemanNathan** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:20 pm

bb1boy wrote:Ok, ok, I thought VIN's were non-transferable..

They're not

But they're stamped into the bulkhead of a lude and the plate on the slam panel, so by your logic you're saying it's the bulkhead that makes a lude a lude

Post by **NafemanNathan** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:25 pm

wurlycorner wrote:But then if on top of that, you also change the shell... You've really stretched it even further away from being an Rs1600i

No, you've stretched it away from being original, if a standard shell is exactly the same (ie. would have been created the same and probably came from the same factory, although I know that's not always the case with Ford), then why does it matter?

If the shell of a Prelude BB2 was dropped on to the shell of a BB4, it wouldn't make any odds to us apart from how well it had been done and the fact that it's no longer original. It wouldn't make it any less of a BB4. These two things just become all more important when you're talking about classics and their value.

bb1boy · Post by **bb1boy** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:29 pm

NafemanNathan wrote:...they're stamped into the bulkhead of a lude and the plate on the slam panel, so by your logic you're saying it's the bulkhead that makes a lude a lude

No, I'm saying that the car is whatever the VIN say's it is..

If you have a Prelude chassis with the correct VIN plates and you add a Chevy V8, it's still a Prelude, just a modified one.. it doesn't become a Chevy.

bb1boy · Post by **bb1boy** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:30 pm

In short, with a new engine and shell, the originality of the RS1600 is gone.. but it could still be classed as an RS1600 if all the parts come from a proper RS1600.

Post by **NafemanNathan** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:41 pm

bb1boy wrote:
NafemanNathan wrote:...they're stamped into the bulkhead of a lude and the plate on the slam panel, so by your logic you're saying it's the bulkhead that makes a lude a lude
No, I'm saying that the car is whatever the VIN say's it is..

If you have a Prelude chassis with the correct VIN plates and you add a Chevy V8, it's still a Prelude, just a modified one.. it doesn't become a Chevy.

But say you cut'n'shut a Prelude shell, including the top portion of the bulkhead that has the VIN stamped into it onto a working, running shell-less chassis of a Hyundai Coupe (removing the Hyundai's VIN), in my eyes you couldn't call that a Prelude... It's still a Hyundai Coupe... Just it's had a major face, ass, side, roof lift.

It doesn't matter how much work goes into it, it's down to the percentages.

More complications would occur if you had the chassis of one car, the shell of another, and the engine of a third vehicle

bb1boy · Post by **bb1boy** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:47 pm

^^

yeah and the interior of a fourth car!

Yeah I see that, if you butcher it that much then sure, percentages. But say you're keeping shells and chassis complete, just doing whole swaps, wouldn't that make a difference?

Post by **NafemanNathan** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:01 pm

You could look at it like a car is made up of a number of sub-catagories...

Engine
Transmission (This could be part of Engine)
Suspension (Shocks, Knuckles, hubs ARBs etc)
Braking (This could be added to Suspension as they're all part of the handling capabilities)
Chassis
Shell
Interior

Whatever car is responsible for at least 50% of the above is the car it's called. If none make up 50% then it's a just a mess plain and simple

bb1boy · Post by **bb1boy** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:07 pm

Fair enough, I#ll agree with that.. shall we just leave it there now?

Post by **NafemanNathan** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:12 pm

Depends... Do you agree with 100% of everything I have said throughout this thread?...